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  • Has your username changed as part of the site merger and want it changed back? If the other version of your username isn't being used, send Gulfer a PM and we can probably fix it for you

Grand Am APR cars have Passat OE Aluminum Upright?

Thumper1

Go Kart Champion
Aluminium weaker than steel? Yes, if both are same size. But these aluminium
parts are bulkier and they are forged > at least as strong as cast steel.
Aluminum it's actually stronger than many steels in certain alloys and is heavily used in vehicle structure and suspension. Aluminum versus cast steel? I'll take aluminum.......lighter, as strong or stronger.......just more costly.
 

carsfeverguy

Go Kart Champion
Well, I have done it boys and girls.
I have gone the aluminium way for both Spindles and LCA.
They are not fitted to the car, but I will give a full report when done.
Can't wait. Also, this will be working together with the Boxter caliper setup.
 

engineered2win

Ready to race!
Well, I have done it boys and girls.
I have gone the aluminium way for both Spindles and LCA.
They are not fitted to the car, but I will give a full report when done.
Can't wait. Also, this will be working together with the Boxter caliper setup.
Hot damn, I'm going down this route after my xenon headlight retrofit. I already bought the brackets from Apikol after discussing with him my concerns of possible fitment issues (other than different length bolts for the carrier to spindle attachment). Keep us informed!:thumbup:

Did you go the junkyard route? Looking on car-part.com I think I can get all four components for ~$250, but I haven't seen anything definitive over whether the Passat ball joint is the same as the Golf.
 

bimmer635csi

Ready to race!
I have gone the aluminium way for both Spindles and LCA.
They are not fitted to the car, but I will give a full report when done.
Is it possible that during the install you could compare the weights of the stamped steel vs. aluminum LCA? I wonder if there is much weight savings there.
 

carsfeverguy

Go Kart Champion
Tyrol Mike already did all the work :

The weigh-in:

Stock Lower





Passat Lower





TT Lower (.25lbs heavier than Passat)





Stock Spindle




Passat Spindle




Face off:



The total weight savings is almost seven pounds per corner, with no tradeoffs. Win. :peace: :heart:

Installation









 

carsfeverguy

Go Kart Champion
The only thing different is the fact that the mk6 gti has stamped LCAs which are still heavier than the aluminum ones, but lighter than the cast iron ones... but these stamped things are also bendable...not confidence inspiring...
 

bimmer635csi

Ready to race!
Yeah, I had seen the cast iron vs aluminum weights from Mike. I was just curious about the stamped vs. aluminum weights.

Thanks for the reminder though.
 

Talguy

Go Kart Champion
TyrolMike only measured the Cast Iron LCAs not the stamped steal ones. I believe the MK6 Golf R's still come with the iron ones.

I replaced my LCAs with TT ones. I'll try to pull the stock ones out of the garage tonight and measure how much they weigh with the Ball joint on it. Also the Passat balljoint is the same as the golf. Its the TT ones that are different but the TT ones will press just fine into the golf housing if retrofitting the TT arms onto our platform like I did.
 

the bruce

Go Kart Champion
Also, is upright the same as spindles???
spindles = hubs = uprights

S3 = RS3 = Leon Cupra = Passat


From what i've gathered the geometry is the same. It just an unsprung mass reduction mod.
Almost the same. Alignment will stay the same.

Steering ratio is changed though. The Aluminium spindles have a shorter steering arm
which gives a noticable plus.


BTW, don't underestimate the improved cooling of the wheel bearings !!


the cast iron uprights are weak..

the aluminium ones are much stronger
True. That's one more reason why Volkswagen euse them on heavier cars (R36, Sharan).
 

carsfeverguy

Go Kart Champion
BTW, don't underestimate the improved cooling of the wheel bearings !!
Is that due to the aluminium acting like a heat sink??

Steering ratio is changed though. The Aluminium spindles have a shorter steering arm
which gives a noticable plus.
Was reading up on steering ratios... Would that quicken the steering ratio or lower it?
Also, would it change the feel of the steering into being harder to turn, which is something I would definitely like more.
 

the bruce

Go Kart Champion
Is that due to the aluminium acting like a heat sink??

Was reading up on steering ratios... Would that quicken the steering ratio or lower it?
Also, would it change the feel of the steering into being harder to turn, which is something I would definitely like more.

Yes, aluminium is the prefered material for heatsinks. Much better heat conducter compared to steel.
(copper is even better, but heavy and expensive)

And yes - steering will be slightly quicker. In conjunction with stiffer LCA bushes and top mounts this
is a noticable step forward.
 

carsfeverguy

Go Kart Champion
Bruce, sorry to ask again, but by saying the steering will be quicker, does that mean that the steering ratio be slower, making the steering more direct?
 

the bruce

Go Kart Champion
Of course more direct. You have to make (slightly) less turns on the (steering) wheel.

Just take some time and think about it. When the steering arm of the upright/knuckle
is short every movement of the rack and pinion causes a large amount of wheel turn.
If this steering arm is waaaaayyyyy longer every input has only few effect.
 

the bruce

Go Kart Champion
Of course, quicker. Otherwise it would be a disadvantage.

S4 knuckels have shortest steering arm, TT knuckels have longest
(TTs come with a different steering rack and have shorter wheel base):




Broken steel knuckel after one day at the German GP circuit in Hockenheim:



That's why APR recommend the stringer S3/Passat aluminium replacement !!
 
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