grambles423
Automotive Engineer
Also, the intake logs from the technical sticky can be pulled here too
Also, the intake logs from the technical sticky can be pulled here too
Its been quite a while since I've posted a Technical Understanding thread with some hard data and calculations to further feed our minds. Since most of the conceptual basis of the earlier threads were.....for the least bit.....theorhetical and quite possibly boring, I decided to do a little experimenting (with help from NS01GTI) to collaborate data to compare stock intake with drop ins and aftermarket intakes.
Test Requirements:
- APR K04 93OCT Runs (~366hp ~380tq)
- APR IC (will affect IATs but will remain consistent)
- 3rd and 4th Gear Runs (Data was collaborated in 4th gear due to sample size and output.)
- Consistent Ambient Runs (Or at least within a +/- 5*F Tolerance from our Nominal)
- Stock Intake is a CBFA Intake with no modifications
- VWR Drop in incorporated the deletion of the baffle at the bottom of the air box
- Carbonio was done in two stages: Stage 1 only and Stage 1+2 (PENDING DATA COLLECTION)
- Same stretch of roadway was used
- Variation in Starting RPM Ranged from 200-300RPM in 4th (~2200) and 200RPM in 3rd (2700).
- Redline will be assumed as the normal redline but some logs will be shown past 6600RPM due to the DSG Stage 2 flash (7100RPM Redline) that was added mid testing (DSG Tuning added Post VWR Drop in, Pre Carbonio Stage 1)
Results:
Stock Intake
3rd Gear Run:
4th Gear Run:
Thoughts
Immediately you can see that the stock box will not hold boost properly throughout the entire rev band. Sort of a "dying effect" much like the stock turbo sees.
Boost control is smooth in the midrange which correlates with the peak condition you see intially. Still, the "butt dyno" registers a loss in the system and takes away a lot of the "raw" manly feeling of the K04. You can see the discrepancy from requested and actual better in the 3rd gear log.
Some thoughts in my build thread about the construction of the stock box:
Takeaway: Stock box is not efficient enough to hold and maintain boost through the rev band an on into the upper RPMS. Also, stock box shows higher IATs up the RPM band even with the APR IC.
VWR Drop In Filter
4th Gear Run:
Comparison
So what does this mean? It seems that the drop ins will actually help alleviate some of the down low restriction and allow the turbo to spool quicker, but will not give any added flow up top. Since in fact that two MAF rates look IDENTICAL at redline, I would be safe to say that its simply not worth it. The boost still dies sharply after the "point" has been reached where the flow just cannot keep up with the requested pressure.
Dont mind the lower value for the Drop in filter for boost at the final point. This could be % error in between measurements on different days. The point to take away is that it did not ADD any "breathing" at higher RPM. Ipso Facto......the stock intake box is just too damn restrictive for the boost to keep matching requested values at the last 1/3 of the rev band.
Takeaway: While a drop in allows for some down low flow to spool slightly quicker, up top the car still cannot meet its requested boost. You're still choking the car at upper RPMs
Carbonio Stage 1
4th Gear Pull:
Looking over the logs, the carbonio decreases lag and onset WAY faster than the VWR drop in and Stock filter and flows more in the higher RPMs, thus allowing to hold boost easier (0.29psi discrepancy between Specified and Actual)
Peak MAF Readings
Stock Intake: 236.4
VWR Drop In: 235.8 *******Difference can be error between measurements
Carbonio Full: 258.8
Difference in Peak and Redline Hold
Stock Intake: 5.51psi
VWR Drop In: 5.61psi
Carbonio Full: 3.9psi
Difference in Requested and Actual at Redline
Stock Intake: 2.2psi
VWR Drop In: 2.03psi
Carbonio Full: 0.29psi
This thread is a winner. Good job Bowers.
Thanks for getting my info in here JR
I can't take all the credit. It was more John's idea than anything, I just put it all together.
Great thread. Looking forward to seeing the data. If anyone needs assistance graphing, etc., email me.
Nice thread here.
Here are my logs of my UPsolute tuned CTS K04
Sir, an email has been sent! Just took some logs, Perhaps the information is worthy of being graphed.
Thanks for being an assist to the community!
:thumbsup:
will take more logs once i get my intercooler, top and tbp. wonder what could change in the logs. maybe more g/s, less timing pull and better hold?
I look forward to seeing these.
Your logs look good. I'm not sure you'll see much more boost up top; as it is you're actual is matching requested. You could see more g/s. I'd say the two biggest improvements (measurable by VAGCOM anyway) would be a little less timing pull and lower IATs. You should try and get some IATs logs before you put on the new parts.