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HYDE16 Reviews - TyrolSport DeadSet Rigid Rear Subframe Collar Kit

CobraKing

Ready to race!
Only thing im worried about with this, is the possibility of galvanic reaction, cause of the dissimilar materials? (stamped/cast iron on floor pan and the c954 bronze aluminium alloy) The galvanic table states that this should be a reason for concern and is not recommended or did i miss something? Im living in denmark (a great deal of snow and salt and mostly wet/damp 200 days a year) so corrosion is a factor for me, would be great if we could have a statement from tyrolsport what research they have made into this, and why they didn´t choose a more similar metal to that of the body?



It might do, it depends on how bad your suspension is centeret at this moment, you could potentially "risk" it doesn´t move at all. It could also move to the worse or get better. No matter what, it still locks the rear suspension down at what it should be, and there after you can look into whats wrong (most likely not alot you can do about it)

I suppose they run the same materials when they fabricate both the fronts and the rears. We'll wait for them to chime in.
 

thegave

Ready to race!
It might do, it depends on how bad your suspension is centeret at this moment, you could potentially "risk" it doesn´t move at all. It could also move to the worse or get better. No matter what, it still locks the rear suspension down at what it should be, and there after you can look into whats wrong (most likely not alot you can do about it)

I thought the rear subframe was adjustable relative to the body?
 

dopedpanda

Ready to race!
I suppose they run the same materials when they fabricate both the fronts and the rears. We'll wait for them to chime in.

They use the same material to both things, and its all great with saying that the material C954 is corrosion proof, but what with that around it? The sub frame is special coated like the tranny (same reason you just can´t use normal bolts on the transmissions else they rot in place pretty fast (ask me how i know)) So im pretty interrested about why they choose that material cause i can come up with alot of materials that have better corrosion resistance mated with body. And i personally don´t want to introduce unwanted corrosion to my nice car.
 

dopedpanda

Ready to race!
I thought the rear subframe was adjustable relative to the body?

It is, but after you install these bushings it won´t be anymore.

The reason VAG use these kinds of subframe is for the produktion line, it makes it a whole lot easier to put together, plus when they put it together, tolerances don´t need to be as tight.

See it like this, the wheels are perfectly centered if the subframe is shifted 1mm to the right of your car. After you install these bushings, it will be 1mm off to the left. And you will have no way (besides even more mods) to straighten it up.
 

CobraKing

Ready to race!
They use the same material to both things, and its all great with saying that the material C954 is corrosion proof, but what with that around it? The sub frame is special coated like the tranny (same reason you just can´t use normal bolts on the transmissions else they rot in place pretty fast (ask me how i know)) So im pretty interrested about why they choose that material cause i can come up with alot of materials that have better corrosion resistance mated with body. And i personally don´t want to introduce unwanted corrosion to my nice car.

HYDE16 is from the North East US - it sees a lot of snow and road salt. We can see what he has to say seeing as he has the part on his car for at least a year and a half now.
 

carsfeverguy

Go Kart Champion
I have had both front and rear since aug 2013.
We had one of the worst winters in long time, and I have had a really good look at the front ones recently and they were in great shape.
I did not look/ handled the back ones but there have been no issues.

The back set will however not correct the unevenness of the body vs axle.
 

CobraKing

Ready to race!
I have had both front and rear since aug 2013.
We had one of the worst winters in long time, and I have had a really good look at the front ones recently and they were in great shape.
I did not look/ handled the back ones but there have been no issues.

The back set will however not correct the unevenness of the body vs axle.

Thanks for confirming my man - I just had the Tyrol front collars and Whiteline ALK installed on my car and I should've done this along time ago. Steering and grip are insane now!

Did you notice any improvements with the rear collars?
 

HYDE161

Go Kart Champion
HYDE16 is from the North East US - it sees a lot of snow and road salt. We can see what he has to say seeing as he has the part on his car for at least a year and a half now.

I'm not sure why this is a huge concern, I've been under my car multiple times recently and always look things over. I don't see any sort of rust or frame discoloration. The kit is $80, buy it and install or don't, the analysis is not needed on my review thread trying to find a reason not to run high quality Tyrol products. Metal analysis aside, if I don't see anything from the Northeast winter salt, no one should see anything.
 

CobraKing

Ready to race!
I'm not sure why this is a huge concern, I've been under my car multiple times recently and always look things over. I don't see any sort of rust or frame discoloration. The kit is $80, buy it and install or don't, the analysis is not needed on my review thread trying to find a reason not to run high quality Tyrol products. Metal analysis aside, if I don't see anything from the Northeast winter salt, no one should see anything.

That's what I thought bud, hope dopedpanda sees this.
 

HYDE161

Go Kart Champion
I'm not trying to be a jerk but geez this is getting technical, it's like finding a reason NOT to buy something when they want it. It's a part of a greater picture, you won't feel a difference really on this, it's just a part of balancing the car as you put more stress on the rear end with aftermarket suspensions so you can throw your car harder into a turn, this is the next weakest link.
 

CobraKing

Ready to race!
I'm not trying to be a jerk but geez this is getting technical, it's like finding a reason NOT to buy something when they want it. It's a part of a greater picture, you won't feel a difference really on this, it's just a part of balancing the car as you put more stress on the rear end with aftermarket suspensions so you can throw your car harder into a turn, this is the next weakest link.

HYDE I think he had an issue with the possibility of corrosion, apart from that it looks like he understood the mechanics of the part.
 

dopedpanda

Ready to race!
HYDE I think he had an issue with the possibility of corrosion, apart from that it looks like he understood the mechanics of the part.

Exactly, i understand the concept all to well.

Im more interrested in why they choose a material that is so far away in the galvanic time table, and i would like to hear if they have done some research in it.
(corrosion is a much bigger problem in EU than in the US, trust me, what you guys call bad enviroment, its just the beginning of the root over here, you can´t even put a hatchet in your shed without oiling it up, 1 winter and it doesn´t matter if you forgot where it was or not, you only find the handle)

I have tried mailing tyrolsport about this, but no statement as of yet :(

Most logically would be if the bracket is either protected/coated or the underbody is an different material than what i have found reading online.

Not bashing the product in anyway, but i think it would be cool to know its 100% safe and not going to give you more problems down the road (pissing your own pants and all that)
 

HYDE161

Go Kart Champion
Exactly, i understand the concept all to well.

Im more interrested in why they choose a material that is so far away in the galvanic time table, and i would like to hear if they have done some research in it.
(corrosion is a much bigger problem in EU than in the US, trust me, what you guys call bad enviroment, its just the beginning of the root over here, you can´t even put a hatchet in your shed without oiling it up, 1 winter and it doesn´t matter if you forgot where it was or not, you only find the handle)

I have tried mailing tyrolsport about this, but no statement as of yet :(

Most logically would be if the bracket is either protected/coated or the underbody is an different material than what i have found reading online.

Not bashing the product in anyway, but i think it would be cool to know its 100% safe and not going to give you more problems down the road (pissing your own pants and all that)

You emailed Tyrol? I just checked with them, which email address?

What material would you have chosen for this kit?

I feel like it's a balancing effect betwee price, durability, etc.
 

dopedpanda

Ready to race!
You emailed Tyrol? I just checked with them, which email address?

What material would you have chosen for this kit?

I feel like it's a balancing effect betwee price, durability, etc.

I send it to tech(@)tyrol sport.com (altered the email with () and space with purpose so they don´t get spammed)

Im not sure to what material i would have used instead cause im not 100% sure on the material used for the body at the mounting points, so its a hard call, but neither the less, aluminium bronze (as it actually is C954 as far as i can figure out, guess they must mean C95400 as i can´t find an alloy called C954 and i would be pretty amazed if they have melted it themselfe)




Im pretty sure its aluminium bronze you should look at in the picture, and (my guess) is our body is somewhere between low alloy steel and mild steel.


My problem is the material they have used is the Cathode and the body will act as the anode. So the body will corrode faster, but the bushings will stay more or less rust free. Its the completly opposite of what ship does, so its the reason i speculate if there is something i have missed or if there is something they missed building this? :23:

And yes, material comes down to cost, it would have been cool to say its a hybrid blend of gold, titanium and plasma enriched stones pulled from Mars, but at the end of the day, im pretty sure we all here that is interrested in this product would be more pleased to spend a little more to have a better product we can know not will give problems down the road (if that was the case, that is) Else for all we know, we could fix 1 problem but make 10 new.

And just to sum it all up, here is a little text stating why im concerned;

The compatibility of two different metals may be predicted by consideration of their anodic index. This parameter is a measure of the electrochemical voltage that will be developed between the metal and gold. To find the relative voltage of a pair of metals it is only required to subtract their anodic indices.[9]

For normal environments, such as storage in warehouses or non-temperature and humidity controlled environments, there should not be more than 0.25 V difference in the anodic index. For controlled environments, in which temperature and humidity are controlled, 0.50 V can be tolerated. For harsh environments, such as outdoors, high humidity, and salt environments, there should be not more than 0.15 V difference in the anodic index. For example; gold/silver would have a difference of 0.15V being acceptable [10][page needed]

Often when design requires that dissimilar metals come in contact, the galvanic compatibility is managed by finishes and plating. The finishing and plating selected allows the dissimilar materials to be in contact, while protecting the base materials from corrosion.[10][page needed] Note that it will always be the lower-down of the two metals which will ultimately suffer from corrosion when galvanic incompatibility is in play. This is why you should never place sterling silver and stainless steel tableware in a dishwasher at the same time, as the steel items will likely experience corrosion by the end of the cycle (soap and water having served as the chemical electrolyte, and heat having amplified the process).



Index (V)

Most Cathodic
Gold, solid and plated, Gold-platinum alloy -0.00
Rhodium plated on silver-plated copper -0.05
Silver, solid or plated; monel metal. High nickel-copper alloys -0.15
Nickel, solid or plated, titanium an s alloys, Monel -0.30
Copper, solid or plated; low brasses or bronzes; silver solder; German silvery high copper-nickel alloys; nickel-chromium alloys -0.35
Brass and bronzes -0.40
High brasses and bronzes -0.45
18% chromium type corrosion-resistant steels -0.50
Chromium plated; tin plated; 12% chromium type corrosion-resistant steels -0.60
Tin-plate; tin-lead solder -0.65
Lead, solid or plated; high lead alloys -0.70
2000 series wrought aluminum -0.75
Iron, wrought, gray or malleable, plain carbon and low alloy steels -0.85
Aluminum, wrought alloys other than 2000 series aluminum, cast alloys of the silicon type -0.90
Aluminum, cast alloys other than silicon type, cadmium, plated and chromate -0.95
Hot-dip-zinc plate; galvanized steel -1.20
Zinc, wrought; zinc-base die-casting alloys; zinc plated -1.25
Magnesium & magnesium-base alloys, cast or wrought -1.75
Beryllium -1.85
Most Anodic
 
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