RacingManiac
Drag Race Newbie
The greasing for me isn't an issue at all, the number of times I swapped pads between track and street pads last summer means that they get re-greased each time I swap them....
6
HYDE16 Reviews - TyrolSport DeadSet Rigid Subframe Collar Kit
- Thread starter HYDE161
- Start date
Mike@TyrolSport
Ready to race!
Hey guys,
The V2 caliper bushings offer no performance improvement over V1. We introduced the V2 to convince some people who have been sitting on the sidelines because of a perceived weakness in the V1. This perceived weakness was that salt/debri could enter the bushing/pin area and cause a failure. We have never had this issue, but wanted to change the design anyways, as we thought we could satisfy more people. The V2 bushings still need to be greased. If you have the V1s, there is no need to upgrade to V2.
The V2 caliper bushings offer no performance improvement over V1. We introduced the V2 to convince some people who have been sitting on the sidelines because of a perceived weakness in the V1. This perceived weakness was that salt/debri could enter the bushing/pin area and cause a failure. We have never had this issue, but wanted to change the design anyways, as we thought we could satisfy more people. The V2 bushings still need to be greased. If you have the V1s, there is no need to upgrade to V2.
allset@supreme power
Go Kart Champion
HYDE161
Go Kart Champion
Another great explanation of the "rigid collar" theory:
http://www.rigidcollar.com/what-is-rigid-collar
http://www.rigidcollar.com/what-is-rigid-collar
grambles423
Automotive Engineer
Getting mine tomorrow. I SHOULD have it installed the week after, but work will ultimately affect that.
grambles423
Automotive Engineer
FYI I'm looking forward to a Deadset Rear upgrade as well. I doubt it'll be AS needed, but certainly it would help!
Any ETA from them?
Any ETA from them?
I was told mid-late December, about 2 weeks ago.
grambles423
Automotive Engineer
grambles423
Automotive Engineer
Per request in the other thread:
Ok. Notice the difference. The non-tapered can cause some of the threads to engage but possibly cross thread. OR not engage at all. The entire joint has three parts to center: Console, Subframe, and Whitebody (Vehicle Frame). To center all of them takes quite the effort and if your threads cannot engage, then you cannot "force" the two lower joints (Did not show the console in the picture) to align with the body. It took me about 15mins of struggling, before I finally gave up and used the taper ended bolts.
The tapered bolts essentially inserts the lower edge into the body hole. With some wiggling, the bolt can be pushed in and ride along the chamfer on the end of the bolt to align the threads. Now everything is snug and centered and can now be properly torqued down. Its an over constrained system now that you're taking up the "slack" with the bushings.
I suggested this to Mike to see what he can make of it. A lot of what I do in design here for Honda is Geometrical analysis and tolerancing dimensioning. Manufacturing is not perfect...we all know that. So if your bolt pattern on your frame is slightly off from your subframe, you must oversize or slot some holes to properly constrain it. If you cant, then provide a "datum pin" that will be called "nominal" and have all the tolerances shift to one side of the car (Front/Back or Left/Right) and slot the other holes to properly align.
Volkswagen has, what I would judge, as a "bad design concept" for the alignment of the subframe. I get it though....they insert a ~8mm bolt in a 12mm hole and expect the equipment to center everything up, expecting to user to never have to modify it. That is what the indexing pins are for that the dealers use when repairing the subframe. However, in our case, we dont have the indexing pins to do this. Why not make sure that the subframe is properly aligned EVERY TIME you lower it? Tyrol has your answer
Ok. Notice the difference. The non-tapered can cause some of the threads to engage but possibly cross thread. OR not engage at all. The entire joint has three parts to center: Console, Subframe, and Whitebody (Vehicle Frame). To center all of them takes quite the effort and if your threads cannot engage, then you cannot "force" the two lower joints (Did not show the console in the picture) to align with the body. It took me about 15mins of struggling, before I finally gave up and used the taper ended bolts.
The tapered bolts essentially inserts the lower edge into the body hole. With some wiggling, the bolt can be pushed in and ride along the chamfer on the end of the bolt to align the threads. Now everything is snug and centered and can now be properly torqued down. Its an over constrained system now that you're taking up the "slack" with the bushings.
I suggested this to Mike to see what he can make of it. A lot of what I do in design here for Honda is Geometrical analysis and tolerancing dimensioning. Manufacturing is not perfect...we all know that. So if your bolt pattern on your frame is slightly off from your subframe, you must oversize or slot some holes to properly constrain it. If you cant, then provide a "datum pin" that will be called "nominal" and have all the tolerances shift to one side of the car (Front/Back or Left/Right) and slot the other holes to properly align.
Volkswagen has, what I would judge, as a "bad design concept" for the alignment of the subframe. I get it though....they insert a ~8mm bolt in a 12mm hole and expect the equipment to center everything up, expecting to user to never have to modify it. That is what the indexing pins are for that the dealers use when repairing the subframe. However, in our case, we dont have the indexing pins to do this. Why not make sure that the subframe is properly aligned EVERY TIME you lower it? Tyrol has your answer
IVVVIKris
Ready to race!
Thanks! For some reason I recall my previous mkIV subframe bolts to be much more expensive and this threw off my expectation for these.
Mike@TyrolSport
Ready to race!
Great review and thanks for the feedback, Grambles423! :thumbup:
We understand your perspective. In our design, we use the taper in the top bushing to locate the collar to the Whitebody, as well as align the bolt during installation to prevent cross-threading. We suggest supporting the subframe (or applying the "force") with a floor jack where applicable, which will align the subframe and the collars with the centerline of the holes in the body. Once the collars are sandwiched between body and subframe, the bolts will thread up by hand and not have to hold the weight of the subframe AND align the holes at the same time.
I should add that this procedure is much easier when performed on a lift with the subframe assembly overhead. If you are attempting it on jackstands, it definitely requires patience.
resilientsoma
Go Kart Champion
man you must have a long mod list, haha.
I just replied on Grambles thread. Is it really worth the 200? I have clunking and did the HSTuning bolts/spacers and didn't resolve it at all. Does anything else improve?
I really need to see your car btw. Haha.
I just replied on Grambles thread. Is it really worth the 200? I have clunking and did the HSTuning bolts/spacers and didn't resolve it at all. Does anything else improve?
I really need to see your car btw. Haha.