I Keep getting tempted....

[C4L]

^this. I haven't heard of any major failures or issues with K04 on either MT or DSG cars, so not sure what he's talking about. Other than that....


balls.

I haven't heard of any issues with it either but it would make me nervous/anxious. Even merely having a VW makes me worry about its reliability/dependability.

I can certainly say taking a 200hp car to 350+hp isn't going to make it MORE reliable....

 

[maxtdi]

I would say the GT isn't the MOST one-dimensional car on the planet (just saw an Elise drive by my office for instance...).

What I suppose I meant was that it is less practical than the GTI. The GTI does so many things well that to me any car doing any number of things less well is more one dimensional.

The GTI, for example;
- gets better gas mileage
- has more passenger room
- has more cargo room
- is less expensive to insure
- is less expensive (apples to apples compared to a 5.0)

and the 'subjective' things like;
- build/material quality
- fit&finsih
- refinement
- comfort
- ergonomics
- interior/exterior aesthetics etc.

To me, the biggest appeal in the Mustang is its performance.
To me, the biggest appeal in the GTI, is everyting in tangent.

GTI - MORE multifaceted, even if the Mustang has many facets too.

Using that example, lets look at a V6 camry.

Its faster than a GTI
It has more passenger room
It has more cargo room
It runs on regular
It is cheaper
Its less expensive to maintain
Its less expensive to insure

 

[Gunkata]

I haven't heard of any issues with it either but it would make me nervous/anxious. Even merely having a VW makes me worry about its reliability/dependability.

I can certainly say taking a 200hp car to 350+hp isn't going to make it MORE reliable....

something something, engine is underated from the factory... something something, has been probably thousands of people now running K04 from FSI through TSI range of engines, something something, TSI is even more reliable overall and the small issues are just that - small ones and it can handle more power as proven/shown already... something, something, something something, complete.

Using that example, lets look at a V6 camry.

Its faster than a GTI
It has more passenger room
It has more cargo room
It runs on regular
It is cheaper
Its less expensive to maintain
Its less expensive to insure

^haha, fightin' fire with fire.

 

[mk6medic]

care to explain this statement? One-Dimensional to me means that the car is good at one thing, and one thing only. This is a car that is as quick or quicker than in the 1/4 mile than all others in its class (muscle cars.) It's got decent gas mileage (decent, not great) for the power it puts down 420bhp. Oh not to mention it is right up there with some of the benchmark German cars in road courses (The BMW M3)

The interior and exterior to be honest is going to be 100% subjective. Some will like it, others won't. After having sat in one, the interior is not bad at all. Is it as refined as the GTI? not sure, my GTI has some rattles and quirks in it and having not actually driven the Stang I don't know if it does or not.

Agreed. The Mustang is far from one dimensional. It will easily out handle a GTI, and obviously out run it. And I am talking about in stock form here.

As far as the interior, I was in a 05 Mustang GT prior to my GTI. Part of the allure of the GTI was the refinement and material quality. After 12k miiles of driving, my GTI rattles just about as much as my Mustang did. A Mustang that had no mufflers on it and a stereo I would play loudly. It had all the harsh plastics. I am severely disappointed by the number of rattles in my GTI. I expected more. the new Mustang also has soft touch plastics in it as well. Opinions are opinions. No one will mistake a Mustang as a luxury car. They also won't make that distinction about a GTI. The new Mustang is alot better than my 05 was. If I didn't need 4 doors, I probably would be driving a 5.0 right now.

However, for the price, performance, fuel economy, utility, interior quality and having 4 doors, nothing was better than the GTI, IMO. It does everything well, just not the best at everything. Well-rounded little hatch. Perfect for everyday family life.

 

[maxtdi]

I could add better warranty and more cupholders...

 

[ImAuthenticFTW]

I would say the GT isn't the MOST one-dimensional car on the planet (just saw an Elise drive by my office for instance...).

What I suppose I meant was that it is less practical than the GTI. The GTI does so many things well that to me any car doing any number of things less well (??? haha) is more one dimensional.

The GTI, for example;
- gets better gas mileage While this is true, the ~220bhp pump in power to some is a good trade off for lower fuel economy

- has more passenger room I normally have only one other person in the car with me, a year into my GTI i've had someone in the back maybe twice

- has more cargo room True, but it's in the style of the car, hatchback vs coupe is always going to go that way. The cargo space in the GT isn't horrible by any means. My old Civic Si has worse than the Stang

- is less expensive to insure a $300 a year difference for the GT, i've already priced it

- is less expensive (apples to apples compared to a 5.0) I drive an Autobahn trim GTI, I could get a Mustang for about the same or a little less than i did this car

and the 'subjective' things like;
- build/material quality
- fit&finsih
- refinement
- comfort
- ergonomics
- interior/exterior aesthetics etc.

To me, the biggest appeal in the Mustang is its performance.
To me, the biggest appeal in the GTI, is everyting in tangent.

GTI - MORE multifaceted, even if the Mustang has many facets too.

See I think some GTI owners on this forum have a type of complex to them, similar to what was noticed when i was over on the civic forum with Si owners. They seem to think the GTI is one of the best cars out there, when in fact it's nothing more than a factory beefed up econobox. As much as i hate to say that, it is a reality.

 

[maxtdi]

when in fact it's nothing more than a factory beefed up econobox. As much as i hate to say that, it is a reality.

Correction, Factory beefed up econobox with a baby dick turbo

 

[Gunkata]

lol.. baby dick turbo, FTW.




BDT! BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT! BDT!

 

[mk6medic]

lol.. baby dick turbo, FTW.




BDT! BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT!BDT! BDT!

Great, another acronym for my car. I now drive an 11 CSG DSG GTI with a BDT. FML.

 

[aw6141]

You're a business man...I dont expect you to understand.

:laugh: truth

Using that example, lets look at a V6 camry.

Its faster than a GTI
It has more passenger room
It has more cargo room
It runs on regular
It is cheaper
Its less expensive to maintain
Its less expensive to insure

but but the v6 camry is japanese and has no soul and it is just an appliance! :laugh:

but honestly, after riding in corvettes and mustangs at autocrosses, I would not mind owning one, I just love how a lot of the drivers can handle the power and stay competitive with the miatas. What holds me back from buying one is mostly the size. I guess I just like small cars. Though the rumors of downsizing them for the next generations sounds appealing.

They seem to think the GTI is one of the best cars out there, when in fact it's nothing more than a factory beefed up econobox. As much as i hate to say that, it is a reality.

Same observation I've noticed,

 

[C4L]

Using that example, lets look at a V6 camry.

Its faster than a GTI
It has more passenger room
It has more cargo room
It runs on regular
It is cheaper
Its less expensive to maintain
Its less expensive to insure

- Camry is AS FAST (+/- a few tenths) as GTI in PURE acceleration but of course handles worse, brakes worse, has less grip, and lacks any sort of decent feel/dynamics (in short, GTI is the better performance/drivers car)
- Camry has 7% more interior passenger volume but is 20% larger
- Camry has less total cargo capacity. (Camry Seats Up - 15.4 cu.ft, GTI Seats Up/Down - 15.3/25.4 cu.ft)
- Camry V6 gets 21/30mpg vs. 24/33mpg for GTI DSG. At 15k/year and $4.00 for premium and $3.80 for regular, the GTI annual fuel cost is $2,104 and the Camry is $2,234
- V6 Camry is priced from $27,670 to $33,375. GTI is priced from $23,995 to $31,695. GTI is less, comparably equipped, all the way up
- Camry includes 2/24 free maintenance, GTI includes 3/36. I lease
- Camry V6 is MORE expensive to ensure due to its V6. GTI gets listed as 4-cylidner Golf for insurance purposes. My MKV was listed as a Jetta Wagon for the entire 4.5 years I had it and they assured me it was listed correctly

Next??:thumbsup:

 

[C4L]

See I think some GTI owners on this forum have a type of complex to them, similar to what was noticed when i was over on the civic forum with Si owners. They seem to think the GTI is one of the best cars out there, when in fact it's nothing more than a factory beefed up econobox. As much as i hate to say that, it is a reality.

Of course we think the GTI is the best car out there... THAT IS WHY WE BOUGHT IT.

You literally just agreed with everything I said when comparing the two cars but effectively decided it doesn't matter TO YOU.

It IS a beefed up econobox. Just happens to be the nicest econobox on the market anywhere in the world. That is the reality of it. Go drive a Mazda3 or Impreza or Cruze or Lancer and then try and tell me it is 'just an econobox'.

The GTI is considered a 'Premium Compact' or 'Upscale Compact' by most professionals;
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/Upscale-Small-Cars/

The reason some of us might have an 'inflated' perception of the GTI is because you can't look to ANY professional automotive source without hearing of the praises the car receives. It is literally (I have counted) the MOST awarded car currently on the market today. Just total number of awards there is no car currently for sale that has won as many as the GTI (in its current iteration).

You probably think some of us are crazy for recognizing and agreeing with this.
I think you are crazy for not...

It all depends on what you value in a car to determine if it is better for you. I will never tell you the GTI is best (for the money) to any one person. I will tell you it is the best overall, period. If you assigned points for every possible category, the Mustang would ONLY claim the performance categories while the GTI would claim literally every other category. A cumulative score of this assessment would yield the GTI the better car as indicated by its higher score.

That's all I meant.

To properly evaluate a car one needs to consider all areas in tangent with equal weighting. When you buy a car, you get the whole car. Good and bad. You just have to pick the one that has more good than bad for what you want. The second you start weighting attributes is the second your choice becomes an opinion (or preference).

 

[maxtdi]

- Camry is AS FAST (+/- a few tenths) as GTI in PURE acceleration but of course handles worse, brakes worse, has less grip, and lacks any sort of decent feel/dynamics (in short, GTI is the better performance/drivers car)
- Camry has 7% more interior passenger volume but is 20% larger
- Camry has less total cargo capacity. (Camry Seats Up - 15.4 cu.ft, GTI Seats Up/Down - 15.3/25.4 cu.ft)
- Camry V6 gets 21/30mpg vs. 24/33mpg for GTI DSG. At 15k/year and $4.00 for premium and $3.80 for regular, the GTI annual fuel cost is $2,104 and the Camry is $2,234
- V6 Camry is priced from $27,670 to $33,375. GTI is priced from $23,995 to $31,695. GTI is less, comparably equipped, all the way up
- Camry includes 2/24 free maintenance, GTI includes 3/36. I lease
- Camry V6 is MORE expensive to ensure due to its V6. GTI gets listed as 4-cylidner Golf for insurance purposes. My MKV was listed as a Jetta Wagon for the entire 4.5 years I had it and they assured me it was listed correctly

Next??:thumbsup:

Are you twisting things again? :laugh:

 

[ImAuthenticFTW]

Of course we think the GTI is the best car out there... THAT IS WHY WE BOUGHT IT.

You literally just agreed with everything I said when comparing the two cars but effectively decided it doesn't matter TO YOU.

It IS a beefed up econobox. Just happens to be the nicest econobox on the market anywhere in the world. That is the reality of it. Go drive a Mazda3 or Impreza or Cruze or Lancer and then try and tell me it is 'just an econobox'.

The GTI is considered a 'Premium Compact' or 'Upscale Compact' by most professionals;
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/Upscale-Small-Cars/

The reason some of us might have an 'inflated' perception of the GTI is because you can't look to ANY professional automotive source without hearing of the praises the car receives. It is literally (I have counted) the MOST awarded car currently on the market today. Just total number of awards there is no car currently for sale that has won as many as the GTI (in its current iteration).

You probably think some of us are crazy for recognizing and agreeing with this.
I think you are crazy for not...

It all depends on what you value in a car to determine if it is better for you. I will never tell you the GTI is best (for the money) to any one person. I will tell you it is the best overall, period. If you assigned points for every possible category, the Mustang would ONLY claim the performance categories while the GTI would claim literally every other category. A cumulative score of this assessment would yield the GTI the better car as indicated by its higher score.

That's all I meant.

To properly evaluate a car one needs to consider all areas in tangent with equal weighting. When you buy a car, you get the whole car. Good and bad. You just have to pick the one that has more good than bad for what you want. The second you start weighting attributes is the second your choice becomes an opinion (or preference).

uh yeah thats false, some of us bought our GTI for BUDGET reasons. Did i really want a GTI, to be honest not really, but for within my budget, and pressed for time to get a new car, it's what i ended up with. Had i had a bigger budget or more time, i would NOT be in a VW right now.

 

[grambles423]

uh yeah thats false, some of us bought our GTI for BUDGET reasons. Did i really want a GTI, to be honest not really, but for within my budget, and pressed for time to get a new car, it's what i ended up with. Had i had a bigger budget or more time, i would NOT be in a VW right now.

Yeah.....I wanted a Golf R ....and bought an MKV due to timing and finances.