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Porsche boxster 4 piston brakes (NQSBBK) fitted on MK7 GTi.

golfdave

Autocross Champion
Location
Scotland (U.K.)
Car(s)
Mk7 Golf GT Estate
How were u able to do this. Their website says not for aluminum knuckles. I would rather do this then just the regular Boxster brakes. Do u not have the aluminum on your car. I thought all gtis were.

All GTi have the 55mm alu struts...…

The only difference re the brake bracket is the alu mounting points are thicker compared to the steel ones so a longer bolt is required...& this also means that one face is the same place as the steel ones..the other face is in a different place compared to the steel ones...so it depends on which face is being used as the mounting point...
 

xxxxxx

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
US
Car(s)
Car
Steel threaded inserts/helicoids etc are widely use in many applications as they produce a much stronger connection than the host material...& the same with insert (tubes) which prevent deformation through repeated bolt tightening...eg steel sleeve in bolt holes in alloy wheels used in motorsport/rally.

I suggest you understand motorsport & materials engineering before you make unfounded defamatory remarks about people/companies.....

Steel sleeved bolt holes on motorsport wheels are just to protect the hole from ovalizing by rubbing against the lug bolts with frequent wheel changing. Once the wheel is on and torqued all the force is through clamping friction on the wheel / hub interface, not the bolt holes. So not a good comparison. And a helicoil etc is still going to be weaker than a solid steel piece, they are mostly to reduce stripping with multiple assembly / disassembly. Or as a Hail Mary when you’ve already stripped it due to trying to torque something down hard in aluminum threads. Suggest we agree to disagree and leave it as it’s got nothing to do with the NQSBBK upgrade.
 

ITGUY

Autocross Newbie
Location
PA
The margin of error is a lot more forgiving with steel, since it's yield strength will be much greater. So yeah, if our cars are being the test beds, I'll take steel. Didn't mean for you to get so upset, you put what you want on your car and I'll do the same on mine.

Back on topic: I'm guessing the CM copies aren't exact copies of the Apikol ones, which definitely work on the Mk7 GTI.

I can see golfdave's point. You come into this forum and your 2nd post is to discredit a company because they make aluminum adapter brackets when every other car manufacturer and after market company is using aluminum for their products. It would've have been better to say I prefer to use steel adapters over aluminum.
 

Willywonka

Ready to race!
Location
Nottingham pa
All GTi have the 55mm alu struts...…

The only difference re the brake bracket is the alu mounting points are thicker compared to the steel ones so a longer bolt is required...& this also means that one face is the same place as the steel ones..the other face is in a different place compared to the steel ones...so it depends on which face is being used as the mounting point...

I already know all that. That is why I asked how he did it. Their website says it does not fit. The regular Boxster brackets work. So if the s brackets mount on the back side this means they will not line up over the rotor. Same problem as the 17/18z calipers. Was wondering if he changed out the knuckles or if there was another reason for for them to say they don’t fit. So back to the question on how he was able to get them to fit.
 

ITGUY

Autocross Newbie
Location
PA
Steel sleeved bolt holes on motorsport wheels are just to protect the hole from ovalizing by rubbing against the lug bolts with frequent wheel changing. Once the wheel is on and torqued all the force is through clamping friction on the wheel / hub interface, not the bolt holes. So not a good comparison. And a helicoil etc is still going to be weaker than a solid steel piece, they are mostly to reduce stripping with multiple assembly / disassembly. Or as a Hail Mary when you’ve already stripped it due to trying to torque something down hard in aluminum threads. Suggest we agree to disagree and leave it as it’s got nothing to do with the NQSBBK upgrade.

so what about making an engine block out of aluminum using a steel sleeve?? it's not a agree to disagree discussion. your making and using very bad examples to make a point.. What does the aluminum bracket that has steel threaded inserts have to do with lug bolts.. You'd better change your steering knuckle out it's made of aluminum fella.
 
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golfdave

Autocross Champion
Location
Scotland (U.K.)
Car(s)
Mk7 Golf GT Estate
Steel sleeved bolt holes on motorsport wheels are just to protect the hole from ovalizing by rubbing against the lug bolts with frequent wheel changing. Once the wheel is on and torqued all the force is through clamping friction on the wheel / hub interface, not the bolt holes. So not a good comparison. And a helicoil etc is still going to be weaker than a solid steel piece, they are mostly to reduce stripping with multiple assembly / disassembly. Or as a Hail Mary when you’ve already stripped it due to trying to torque something down hard in aluminum threads. Suggest we agree to disagree and leave it as it’s got nothing to do with the NQSBBK upgrade.

Sorry but steel sleeves stop the host material being compressed too much....which is why their length is critical......too much torqueing (high & correct) to alloy causes compression.....so a steel sleeve is inserted...


Go look at the Brembo 4pot callipers made for the Audi TTS MQB platform which will fit our cars..& 340mm discs....steel top hat sleeves in the bolt holes...

https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41161&highlight=s3+brake+caliper

& helicoils are well considered better than factory fit in many aluminium engine blocks/heads etc when done right....& will take way more torque...

Again I strongly suggest you read up & understand motorsports engineering...
 
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xxxxxx

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
US
Car(s)
Car
Sorry but steel sleeves stop the host material being compressed too much....which is why their length is critical......too much torqueing (high & correct) to alloy causes compression.....so a steel sleeve is inserted...


Go look at the Brembo 4pot callipers made for the Audi TTS MQB platform which will fit our cars..& 340mm discs....steel top hat sleeves in the bolt holes...

https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41161&highlight=s3+brake+caliper

& helicoils are well considered better than factory fit in many aluminium engine blocks/heads etc when done right....& will take way more torque...

Again I strongly suggest you read up & understand motorsports engineering...

Those steel top-hats in the TTS calipers act as the threaded receiver for the bolts that go through the spindle holes - and VAG placed them there as they knew aluminum wouldn't take the required torque. Nothing to do with compression - if the material is compressing past yield and going plastic then it's not fit for the job. Obviously some sensitive egos in here - will edit my post to remove any mention of the company that uses aluminum brackets.

So, finally: Apikol brackets, boxster 986 (non S) front calipers, swapped crossovers and bleeders, m10x1 banjo bolts, non-PP 312mm rotors confirmed to work on a Mk7 GTI.
 

golfdave

Autocross Champion
Location
Scotland (U.K.)
Car(s)
Mk7 Golf GT Estate
Those steel top-hats in the TTS calipers act as the threaded receiver for the bolts that go through the spindle holes - and VAG placed them there as they knew aluminum wouldn't take the required torque. Nothing to do with compression - if the material is compressing past yield and going plastic then it's not fit for the job. Obviously some sensitive egos in here - will edit my post to remove any mention of the company that uses aluminum brackets.

I know that compression is not a factor in the TTS brackets...but it is in the alloy wheel example I gave...& I was told this by Rimstock who make the VWRacing wheels & those for the British touring Car Championship....& make for rally use.....as it was an option I had when I ordered my two sets for my car from them...

The top hats bypass the bracket so you actually torque down (& through) on the steel top hat....infact the same with steel inserts in alloys.....you can't tighten/compress beyond the steel insert..thats what its there for.....to stop compression of the alloy due to loads of tightening cycles…


The fact that VAG got Brembo to make alu calipers & use steel top hat sleeves also blows apart your earlier inference that the Vagbremtechnic stuff was rubbish as its aluminium with steel inserts....

sound, fact based, well proven, motorsport engineering is what its called.....


Only a few posts & freshly joined & slagging very well respected companies off & all because of personal preference & NOT based on actual facts.....great way to join a forum...
 
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xxxxxx

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
US
Car(s)
Car
The fact that VAG got Brembo to make alu calipers & use steel top hat sleeves also blows apart your earlier inference that the Vagbremtechnic stuff was rubbish as its aluminium with steel inserts....
The TTS calipers are made by ATE, not Brembo.

Only a few posts & freshly joined & slagging very well respected companies off & all because of personal preference & NOT based on actual facts.....great way to join a forum...
Didn't realize you were the thought police on here. Just expressed my opinion, based on experience and qualifications. Which is what a public forum is for. Don't take things too seriously. Laters.
 

golfdave

Autocross Champion
Location
Scotland (U.K.)
Car(s)
Mk7 Golf GT Estate
The TTS calipers are made by ATE, not Brembo.


Didn't realize you were the thought police on here. Just expressed my opinion, based on experience and qualifications. Which is what a public forum is for. Don't take things too seriously. Laters.

ATE yes correct I got momentarily confused between RS & S calipers…:eek:


Yes this is a public forum & everyone is entitled to express opinions...just slagging off a companies products as rubbish because its steel inserts in aluminium calipers…& this being entirely based on your personal opinions & NOT actual mechanical or engineering facts..or from actual usage of said companies products....

That's called defamation...…& this forum is here to get accurate facts out....not baseless personal opinions...

& I ain't the thought police on here there are others that do that..

The only reason I had a go at you is that having run my own company for many years I just don't like seeing people slagging off other small hard working, well respected companies based on NO facts....
 

sprinks

Drag Racing Champion
Location
United States
Yeah, golfdave is spot on on this.

New guy:
Coming in and slinging your experience around isn't the way to influence people. Lots of smart individuals on this forum and the cumulative experience of the forum likely dwarfs your individual experience.
 

Drader

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
SF Bay
I'm really not understanding the diagram on page 3. In both the MK7 and Boxter examples the smaller piston is on the leading edge. Because it is smaller and actuated with hydraulics, the smaller piston pushes out first. This angles the pads to point into the leading edge... causing squeal. Seems like you'd want the smaller piston to be on the trailing edge, thus angling the pads to create a nice funnel for the rotor to turn into.


I'm not saying the diagram is wrong - it is, in fact, correct, because I have these calipers in my garage and just checked the orientation. I just don't understand why Brembo works this way, as I've seen other 4-piston calipers work the opposite way.
 

Reggie Enchilada

Autocross Newbie
Location
nowhere
Car(s)
yes
Bringing this up from the dead does anyone have a fitment template? I'm looking at either the vagbremtechnic or Apikol brackets. I'm hoping these will fit under a 16" wheel. On the MkV forum there were posts with pics fitting behind 16s but they were old deleted photobucket pics sadly.

I'm really not understanding the diagram on page 3. In both the MK7 and Boxter examples the smaller piston is on the leading edge. Because it is smaller and actuated with hydraulics, the smaller piston pushes out first. This angles the pads to point into the leading edge... causing squeal. Seems like you'd want the smaller piston to be on the trailing edge, thus angling the pads to create a nice funnel for the rotor to turn into.


I'm not saying the diagram is wrong - it is, in fact, correct, because I have these calipers in my garage and just checked the orientation. I just don't understand why Brembo works this way, as I've seen other 4-piston calipers work the opposite way.

From my understanding with the smaller piston being the lead in piston you get a more progressive pedal feel.

I'm planning to test fit these next week let's hope they clear 16s!

You may be able to source a fitment template from Apikol or Vagbremtechnic, I'd give them a call or send an email. I remember seeing the posts that you're referencing with the MK5 and MK6 guys with 16" wheels. Since the 312mm rotors are 12.3" across and the top of the caliper is about an inch past that, they should fit in terms of the diameter. You'll need to pay attention to the fit in terms of width though. Since the Brembo's are a bit wider that the stock calipers, you'll need to make sure that your wheels have enough of an offset to account for the extra caliper width.

Drader,
For the piston orientation, it's set up that way to give a more progressive pedal feel. You'll have a reasonably light pedal under light pressure with enough force for stopping during normal driving, and you will have plenty of force on tap for when you need it during hard braking. Also, think of it in terms of how the force is applied to the rotor as it passes through the caliper.

Under hard braking with the correct piston orientation, a particular point on the rotor will experience progressively more force as it passes through the caliper on its path of rotation. This produces good initial bite with more force after it.

Under hard braking with an incorrect piston orientation, a particular point on the rotor would experience regressively less force as it passes through the caliper on its path of rotation. This would produce great initial bite, but with less force after it.
 

Sc629

Go Kart Newbie
Location
IN
So just wanted to check, since a lot of people are installing this on GTIs, I'm wondering if they will work on a TSI given the different suspension setup and materials?
 
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