Stage 1 vs Stage 2? And what about reliability?

[Zanic L3]

Disclaimer: I got the 2.0 TSI from the Mk6 in my Scirocco (CAWB - 200hp).
The chain and tensioners have all been updated to the latest model last summer.

A stage 1 would set me at around 270 hp and 420 nm (310ft-lb). A stage 2 would set me just right below the 300 hp mark and around 440 nm (325ft-lb).

For stage 2 would I would obviously need to get a downpipe. I can find non catted used ones at around the €200 mark in my area (CTS, Millteks, etc). I'm def not shying away from installing a DP as my Milltek catback non res is sometimes a bit to quite for my likings.


Anyways, how is the reliability? I don't want to grenade my engine, in the end, it's now 11 years old (2009 MY) so I'm worried that things will start breaking now with the extra power and age on it. How do y'all deal with these thoughts? I was already afraid every time I would hear the chain rattle before I did the chain revision. I felt like I was driving a timing bomb at that time.

Car is a DSG as well and that will get mapped as well.



A Stage 2 is actually not far from the price of a Stage 1 tune so that's why I'm leaning towards just going for a Stage 2? Opinions?
Stage 1 - €1150
Stage 2 - €1600
(All including software, labor, dyno runs, hardware, etc)

Btw, this is an actual tune, they put the car on dyno before and after and they try to improve certain parameters, they don't just throw a stock tune on it and call it quits

 

[GolNat]

No difference in reliability with a proper tune and well maintained car. Go stage 2 if you can. Worth the extra cost and added exhaust note.

These engines can run up to 400HP on stock internals.

 

[Zanic L3]

No difference in reliability with a proper tune and well maintained car. Go stage 2 if you can. Worth the extra cost and added exhaust note.

These engines can run up to 400HP on stock internals.

Thank you,

Also these EA888 gen1's? Someone told me a long time ago that these engines need new piston heads if you want to push beyond the 300hp mark (the gen1's)
I met that person on Assetto Corsa Nurburgring server and he had a Mk6 that was tuned and built for the ring (his words)

 

[MrFancypants]

Thank you,

Also these EA888 gen1's? Someone told me a long time ago that these engines need new piston heads if you want to push beyond the 300hp mark (the gen1's)
I met that person on Assetto Corsa Nurburgring server and he had a Mk6 that was tuned and built for the ring (his words)

Cars upgraded with K04s don't seem exploding often and those can get to around or above 350 hp.

 

[zef]

These motors are very stout (as long as the tensioner has been replaced). Plenty of people I know are nearly 500whp on stock internals.

My car is right around 330whp with a KO4 (MK6 Golf R turbo) and an APR tune. I did several time attack events last year and in some cases did consistent hot lapping for 20-30 minutes. Not a single complaint from the car.

 

[Zanic L3]

These motors are very stout (as long as the tensioner has been replaced). Plenty of people I know are nearly 500whp on stock internals.

My car is right around 330whp with a KO4 (MK6 Golf R turbo) and an APR tune. I did several time attack events last year and in some cases did consistent hot lapping for 20-30 minutes. Not a single complaint from the car.

Glad to hear. I'm currently looking to get straight into a Stage 2 with a downpipe and an intake on top of it. The chain and tensioners were updated last summer. I've been going around a few tuners in my area (I'm not from the US) and one of them actually turned me down for a Stage 2 tune, the emails were the following (in short, translated). This tuner is actually pretty reputable, I've seen their work before. For the record, my car is a 2009 2.0 TSI Scirocco with a DSQ (CAWB - 200HP - Mk6 GTI engine) with just 95 000 km (+- 60k miles)

Their response

I would rather advise against Stage 2 on this mileage, we prefer to be honest about that.

My response

What would be the 'correct' or 'better' mileage for a stage 2? Or is this more because the car is already 10 years old and no longer in 'new'?

Their response

Both in this case.

We recommend it rather if the car is less than 5 years old and indeed, depending on the engine, around 50 000km.

That is why we prefer to be honest with our customers.

My response

Interestingly, what is the lifespan of a stage 2 car? So much shorter than without or with a stage 1?

Their response

No, this is not the case, but after adjustment, we learn from experience that this is less interesting.

Their response etc kinda made me look away from getting it tuned for a while, I'm afraid of going and chasing more power but at the cost of the whole grenading the whole engine. I've also been thinking of the idea of just keeping it stock (well the motor) for a year more or so and then just selling it and upgrading to an R or an RS3

 

[Timothy Bryce]

Their response etc kinda made me look away from getting it tuned for a while, I'm afraid of going and chasing more power but at the cost of the whole grenading the whole engine. I've also been thinking of the idea of just keeping it stock (well the motor) for a year more or so and then just selling it and upgrading to an R or an RS3

It kinda sounds like BS to me. Maybe this tuner has had a bad experience with people blaming them for their cars failing?
Ultimately if the car has been looked after there is absolutely no reason to go stage 2. To be fair, stage 2 is only a small jump from stage 1. If anything was gonna go pop it would do it at stage 1 anyway; yeah I know stage 2 could be just enough to push it over the edge but it's not because the engine isn't tuneable, its just that other components are more likely to fail.
If you have good mounts, good coils, good plugs, frequent oil changes, recent tensioner and chain etc. there's no reason at all not tune an engine with your mileage.
The guy who runs my local indy has an audi with 244k miles on it and it's stage 2.
-
Yes, you're going to put the engine under more strain and if anything is getting tired, it's going to fail quicker but assuming the engine is in good health, a tune won't kill it.

 

[Zanic L3]

It kinda sounds like BS to me. Maybe this tuner has had a bad experience with people blaming them for their cars failing?
Ultimately if the car has been looked after there is absolutely no reason to go stage 2. To be fair, stage 2 is only a small jump from stage 1. If anything was gonna go pop it would do it at stage 1 anyway; yeah I know stage 2 could be just enough to push it over the edge but it's not because the engine isn't tuneable, its just that other components are more likely to fail.
If you have good mounts, good coils, good plugs, frequent oil changes, recent tensioner and chain etc. there's no reason at all not tune an engine with your mileage.
The guy who runs my local indy has an audi with 244k miles on it and it's stage 2.
-
Yes, you're going to put the engine under more strain and if anything is getting tired, it's going to fail quicker but assuming the engine is in good health, a tune won't kill it.

Damn spot on. I literally just came back from picking up a downpipe for it.

Gonna call the tuner (the one who is willing to do it) tomorrow and ask when I can come by. Just to make clear, that other tuner was willing to work on it, I mean he didn't turn it down but he just meant that he isn't really pushy to get his hands on it so to say.

 

[Zanic L3]

I got it tuned yesterday. It's now running 291hp and 424 nm (312 ft-lb) of torque.

The car feels totally different, first and second gear just pull. It feels like I'm getting pulled into a void or something. The DSG is also tuned, it feels like it's snappier and shifts a bit faster. Although I'm not entirely sure, the traffic was bad yesterday and wasn't able to fully open it up yet, and it doesn't downshift anymore once you hit the tap down on the throttle pedal (thank god).

About the downpipe, it's installed. No issues at all. I thought first that it was going to be much louder but it's not that case. I think the sound increased by 30% - 40% compared to my Milltek non res catback. I can smell the fuel though, yeah you smell it but again it's not THAT bad.

I also have a CTS air intake and it sounds like I'm stepping on a bird or something on throttle it's fucking loud revving it with the hood open, didn't expect it.

Funny thing is, they first put it on a dyno with a stock tune but with these installed, a catless dp, cts air intake and a milltek catback and it made 220hp and 300 nm torque. So that's a 20hp and 20nm gain. From these three.

Now, here's the other part that's on my mind. I'm still a little bit afraid that things will start breaking and going downhill from now, some people on a Facebook group were starting to talk about turbo surge etc, and what to look out for. I don't have a diverter valve, should I get it?

 

[Timothy Bryce]

I don't have a diverter valve, should I get it?

Great results! Well done.
You do have a diverter valve already; just the factory fitted one. If it's still working (which it must be to reach those figures) I would just leave it be.
Many folk like to 'upgrade' it using the GFB DV+ valve which retains the body of the original valve but replaces the biit that's prone to failure. However, although many swear by this, some tuners here in the UK recommend against it and advise to just use the latest OEM revision (revision G).
There's also the option to fit an OEM revision D which uses a mechanical piston instead of a diaphragm but again, some tuners here recommend against it.

 

[Zanic L3]

Great results! Well done.
You do have a diverter valve already; just the factory fitted one. If it's still working (which it must be to reach those figures) I would just leave it be.
Many folk like to 'upgrade' it using the GFB DV+ valve which retains the body of the original valve but replaces the biit that's prone to failure. However, although many swear by this, some tuners here in the UK recommend against it and advise to just use the latest OEM revision (revision G).
There's also the option to fit an OEM revision D which uses a mechanical piston instead of a diaphragm but again, some tuners here recommend against it.

Im having a slight beep on half throttle when pulling (see clip below). On full throttle it doesn't do it. Im guessing thats the DV.
Should I be worried about this noise?

https://streamable.com/wqyxgp

 

[BudgetPhoenix]

Its resonance from the DV, more common to hear with full length intakes, its harmless.

 

[Zanic L3]

Its resonance from the DV, more common to hear with full length intakes, its harmless.

Alright thanks, is this one of the reason why ppl upgrade their DV's? Or in other words, is this a solid reason for me to upgrade the DV?

 

[BudgetPhoenix]

Yeah but it seems like the GFB DV+ doesnt always solve the issue. Probably a few factors like your specific intake and tune

 

[dbizzle22]

I've gone from APR Stage 1 to Stage 2 and ultimately back to Stage 1 now. Stage 2 was fun when I had time and energy to install the parts and drive the car hard for sure. But now that I have to deal with getting a smog check every 2 years and don't have the desire to remove/reinstall the downpipe and intake to pass smog ... I just went back to stage 1. Still very fun to drive hard when I feel like it. Just feels and sounds much more like a powerful unmodified stock car.