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Why I sold my Tesla Model 3 Performance & went back to gas

bentin

Autocross Champion
That's odd. I just rented a Model 3 standard range, RWD and it was about as fast as my Stage 1 GTI. Maybe her's was low on juice? The one I drove was ~85% charge when I got on it. (It kinda just points back to the battery tech needing more time in the oven)
I think it's just perception, since they're at max torque from idle, they don't always feel that quick, but like you said, even the rwd TM3 is about as quick as a stock GTI/GLI. There is a big gap though from the base to the Long Range, and a smaller, but still notable difference again to the Performance.

The one place I see a huge difference in BEV application is the aggressiveness or lack there of towards regenerative braking. Teslas are great at it and make one foot driving very easy. The i3 was actually really good at it too. But the VAG products drive more like conventional automatics, which is easier for the normal consumer to adapt to, but takes away some of what I perceive as an advantage to BEV's and of course hurts overall range to a degree.
 

Corprin

Autocross Champion
I'm curious as to how many EV's have been stuck in the 24 hour highway jam outside of DC the last couple of days.

This leads to my constant concern.

I’m in MN, it’s -4F ambient outside as I type this. An ICE car’s heater is a byproduct of the combustion process. If has no bearing on fuel consumption rates. When I see Teslas putting around in this cold, I wonder how efficient their heaters are, how long can they sustain the occupants. What is the reduction in range that comes from their heavy use, and how does that affect their efficiency over their lifetime?

This leads to a safety concern. If I put my car into a snow drift, I keep the engine idling to keep the heat on. The rate of fuel consumed does not change if I run anywhere from full hot vs ice cold. A quarter tank can keep me and the family alive for quite a while. Then when pulled out, 30sec with a gas can and I can make it to a refuel. I can even refuel this fast while my family is kept warm with the engine running.

Doing the same, very real situation, in an EV worries me. What is the recharge rate sufficient enough to get a Tesla 20-30mi, while the heater(s) push enough BTUs to keep the cabin at 50-70F above ambient off a small portable gas/diesel generator? Can the heat remain on while charging?

i like the idea of EV, but we are a long way from them completely replacing ICE. And like another commenter said, I don’t drive enough to need a footprint offset. My 19 GTI just broke 8000mi.
 

josephvman

New member
This leads to my constant concern.

I’m in MN, it’s -4F ambient outside as I type this. An ICE car’s heater is a byproduct of the combustion process. If has no bearing on fuel consumption rates. When I see Teslas putting around in this cold, I wonder how efficient their heaters are, how long can they sustain the occupants. What is the reduction in range that comes from their heavy use, and how does that affect their efficiency over their lifetime?

This leads to a safety concern. If I put my car into a snow drift, I keep the engine idling to keep the heat on. The rate of fuel consumed does not change if I run anywhere from full hot vs ice cold. A quarter tank can keep me and the family alive for quite a while. Then when pulled out, 30sec with a gas can and I can make it to a refuel. I can even refuel this fast while my family is kept warm with the engine running.

Doing the same, very real situation, in an EV worries me. What is the recharge rate sufficient enough to get a Tesla 20-30mi, while the heater(s) push enough BTUs to keep the cabin at 50-70F above ambient off a small portable gas/diesel generator? Can the heat remain on while charging?

i like the idea of EV, but we are a long way from them completely replacing ICE. And like another commenter said, I don’t drive enough to need a footprint offset. My 19 GTI just broke 8000mi.

It seems that EV’s are quite successful in Scandinavia counries with harsh winters, which is interesting. I assume they have far better infrastructure in place, effective public transportation, and simply don’t travel the distances we do. Their fuel costs are also exponentially higher than ours so there’s an economic incentive to go EV.

In the US we have a power grid that is incapable of sustaining current power demands, and in Texas last February failed and directly led to the death of dozens during a week of weather that never even hit single digits F. That’s with approximately 3-4% EV’s on the road. What happens to the grid when that becomes 20%?

I like the EV concept and think it’s the ideal vehicle for many applications, just not the best one for all.
 

Corprin

Autocross Champion
It seems that EV’s are quite successful in Scandinavia counries with harsh winters, which is interesting. I assume they have far better infrastructure in place, effective public transportation, and simply don’t travel the distances we do. Their fuel costs are also exponentially higher than ours so there’s an economic incentive to go EV.

In the US we have a power grid that is incapable of sustaining current power demands, and in Texas last February failed and directly led to the death of dozens during a week of weather that never even hit single digits F. That’s with approximately 3-4% EV’s on the road. What happens to the grid when that becomes 20%?

I like the EV concept and think it’s the ideal vehicle for many applications, just not the best one for all.

Doing some reading, MN folks are seeing 40-50% reductions in range during our winters. Most say don’t use heat, rely on the heated seats. 🤣

So that’s about worthless for anything beyond going to the grocery store.
 

sterkrazzy

Autocross Champion
Tesla owners are masochists confirmed.
 

bentin

Autocross Champion
Doing some reading, MN folks are seeing 40-50% reductions in range during our winters. Most say don’t use heat, rely on the heated seats. 🤣

So that’s about worthless for anything beyond going to the grocery store.
It really does come down to whether the car has an electric heat pump. If it does, like many newer cars, and nearly all Teslas, it's not nearly that large of an impact. And is your grocery store over 100 miles away? EV's don't fit every need yet, by a long shot, the more prevalent switch will be to plug in hybrids. Mazda claims the new Miata will be a hybrid with a manual, what's not to like?
 

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
I saw a concept a few years ago from Audi. It was an electric car, with a small wankel that is used as a generator to extend range. Again, tiny little wankel spinning at 50k rpms turning a generator.
 

Acadia18

Autocross Champion
I saw a concept a few years ago from Audi. It was an electric car, with a small wankel that is used as a generator to extend range. Again, tiny little wankel spinning at 50k rpms turning a generator.

Look man. If you wanna have a small wankel, please keep that to yourself...
 

Corprin

Autocross Champion
It really does come down to whether the car has an electric heat pump. If it does, like many newer cars, and nearly all Teslas, it's not nearly that large of an impact. And is your grocery store over 100 miles away? EV's don't fit every need yet, by a long shot, the more prevalent switch will be to plug in hybrids. Mazda claims the new Miata will be a hybrid with a manual, what's not to like?

No, it’s not 100mi away. That said, you don’t allow your gas tank to drop below 1/4 tank here just in case you get stranded. Low tonight is -21F, this is not abnormal. These temps in normal winter around town gear, not my arctic outdoor stuff, one can become hypothermic in 10min, with death not far behind. Add a mix of two small kids, frostbite, it’s just a bad idea to have no heat

The success of EV in very cold environments is adjacent to metropolitan areas. Go rural or take a trip a few hours away, you’re fucked. And for what it’s worth, even plug in hybrids here run the ICE during winter for heating the cabin.

see below:
Apparently this recently happened 🤣

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/praire-t...-cold-weather-after-software-update-1.5729102

Hits on several points at once.

Between both those dudes’ stories, that pretty much sums up what I’m talking about. Reading some of the referenced tweets and Reddit, seems to be an ongoing issue up here.

On that note, the 2019 Alltrack’s heater was christened by the devil himself…. And extra BTUs are available everywhere in rural tundra.
 

ZERO815

Autocross Champion
The good thing about EVs here in Germany is they are no "left-lane-campers" ;).
 

Cuzoe

Autocross Champion
I agree with most of the things OP said. With a few ifs an EV is great for lots of people. I think range anxiety is somewhat overblown. If you don't have the ability/desire to fast charge at home/on the way/at work then you need to choose an EV that can comfortably get you to work and back at least twice without charging at all (leaving a cushion of ~35 miles, that percent will depend on the size of the battery). This leaves you needing to go to a super/fast charger halfway through the week if you can slow charge at home/work. If you can't slow charge anywhere you'll have to go charge twice during the week. In either case you'll have to charge on the weekend to start the week full.

I don't think it makes much sense to buy an EV, whose real world range becomes known pretty quickly, and then have anxiety about that range. To me, that says you need to wait for batteries/efficiency to improve (and both are) or an EV isn't the car for you/your situation. The as-tested range is good for comparison purposes. But the real-world range is critical (much more so than on ICE vehicles) because charging is not as accessible as gas.

I think when it comes to the driving experience it's just a matter of preference. Acceleration is fun, and as OP mentioned you can do suspension work to make a Tesla (or any performance oriented EV) an animal. The EV's from tried/true sports car brands will undoubtedly be great. The old knowledge but with instant power/reliability/tech. I do think my Mk7 TDI is more fun to drive. The latest Audis/Porsches are in lots of ways more complicated (from a module/component/integration perspective) to achieve the "just drive-ability" with high (if not engaging) performance that every Tesla has.

Tesla specific things:
- I love/hate the constant, iterative, vehicle and software updates. On the whole things trend the right way there are often weird side/back steps.
- When we got our 2019 the situational display of surrounding vehicles was wild... cars "dancing," appearing/disappearing all the time. That improved to where I almost never see a car dance these days, except when distant car is obscured by closer cars and the system can't decide if it's a truck or bus.
- I also recall thinking the brake lights were not coming on appropriately when single pedal driving (using regen)... where now it gives brake lights when I would if using the brake pedal.
- Very recently (like since the last 2 or 3 updates) the ACC gradually slows down when approaching slower cars as opposed to maintaining set speed then braking hard at (what I consider) the last minute, although I never thought it would run into anyone
- The service center has been slow to get parts (probably not their fault) but their communication between each other and to customers needs work... everything is scheduled in the app (including uploading pictures) but the service techs/reps never seem to look in there when you speak to them until you mention it.
--- Had an issue at delivery with tail light condensation and some marks on our white seats, scheduled appointment and uploaded pictures. Dropped off the car when the replacement cushion showed up, got a message saying the car was ready but the invoice didn't mention the tail light. I called and asked about it, was told they didn't know about the tail light. I referred them back to the communication in the app where I could still see my service requests with pictures. Ohhhhhh they said, we'll order a tail light. All well and good, they ordered, when it showed up they scheduled an appointment and replaced it in my driveway, simple. But it could have been ordered at the same time as my seat cushion.
- Computer glitched once and darkened the side mirrors "permanently." Service center said "side mirrors" don't have that functionality. Sure enough, it was not a published feature/not supposed to be active yet but the hardware was in the car. For whatever reason the glitch activated it. Had to take it to a service center where it was fixed in a couple hours, not sure what they did.

That being said, updates are pretty regular and I've not had one fail and "brick" the car (something I was initially worried about despite lack of reported issues). Of course, all manufacturers will/should get to that point so reliable OTA updates should become the norm and not an advantage.

With regard to the EV community, or at least the Tesla community which I am technically a part of (though I don't participate)... kill me please, I hate us so much!
 
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