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Rattle when in neutral and clutch pedal up

GolfTSI

New member
Hi,

I wonder if any of you guys can help me out. I've got a rattling noise that's been there for about the past 9 months and I've been too busy to even think about it until now (new baby and work has been crazy). I've got a few days off and am looking into it now.

When the car is in neutral and the clutch pedal is UP, there is a rattle/ticking noise that comes from underneath the car.

Technical points
  • I've got a Golf Mk6 1.4 TSI 122PS with manual 6-speed transmission, and it's just turned 3 years old last month with 41,000 miles on the clock.
  • When the car is cold it barely makes the noise - I have to get out of the car and stick my head underneath to hear it.
  • When the car has been driving for maybe 15 minutes it is more noticeable. With the windows closed it is just a faint ticking, with windows down it is clear, and when standing beside the car it sounds clearly like something's broken/loose.
  • I will try to record a video tomorrow and post it here but it basically must tick/rattle about 3/4 times a second.
  • If I am stationary and have the clutch pedal down, there is no noise. The minute the clutch pedal comes right up fully the noise returns. If I am driving along and in gear with the clutch up there is no noise (that I have been able to hear anyway). I've tried coasting in neutral with the clutch up and I must admit it was pretty hard to tell but I think I could hear the noise. The key thing is that it's when the clutch pedal is up and the car is in neutral.

From speaking to the dealership and reading around, I have some theories as to what it might be but would appreciate any insight you might have first as to what it might be and what I should do about it.

Warranty annoyances...
  • Car is in VW extended warranty.
  • VW extended warranty (at least the one in the UK) excludes the main components of the clutch/transmission if the issue is down to wear and tear (btw also the factory warranty would have been the same from what I can tell).
  • Taken it to the dealership, they say the process is they do diagnostic work and then identify what they think the issue is and report it to VW UK warranty HQ. The warranty people then normally send out their own master tech to inspect the parts and determine whether it is attributable to wear and tear or not.
  • Dealership was keen to help but made it clear that for example to remove the clutch/transmission and replace it again is around £450 (US$700). In the scenario where they identify an issue and the warranty master tech classifies it as wear and tear, then I am at least shelling out £450 PLUS any repair costs.
  • One guy from the dealership said he worked in the warranty dept for 10 years and that clutches especially are the sorts of items where they tend to not give any leeway because they easily fall into the 'wear and tear' category.
  • Dealership says they can sometimes claim 'goodwill' discounts from the warranty people but these are normally in the region of 20-50% of the total cost and there's no guarantee.
    [*]The rattle clearly means something is not as it should be but since I've noticed zero impact on driving, mpg, etc. after 9 months to be honest I am thinking the low risk thing to do is avoid the dealership. I would however like to have some confidence about what it might be and what could go wrong before I do that.
  • The warranty is due to expire in the next couple of weeks but I am thinking about not extended it because it seems more economical to put whatever money I'd spend on the warranty into a pot for repairs.

OK this has turned into quite a long post. First post here but have been reading the forum on and off to be honest, it's a great community and resource.

Hope you guys can give some insight into what the cause might be. I'll try and get a video up tomorrow.

Cheers.
 

GolfTSI

New member
chatter, its normal
Yeah but just sounds very chattery, and it only happens after the car has been driven for a while. Which I think suggests something gets loose when the part and its oil/lubricant heats up.

My theory is it's the clutch release bearing/throw out bearing that is on its way out...
 

nevekd128

Ready to race!
tob would have nothing to do with it unless you are actuating the clutch. maybe something is up with the dampers in your flywheel, but it simply sounds like clutch chatter
 

GolfTSI

New member
I have a basic understanding of how clutches work, but is there a shaft that goes through the TOB? To be honest I thought the TOB was just constantly rotating on that...
 

Nilly

New member
Neutral Gear Rollover

I have exactly the same issue with my Mk6 Golf (a 2012 1.4TSi 6 speed manual with 35k on the clock)

A noisy intrusive clicky tick/rattle coming from the transmision area when the car is idling in neutral with the clutch pedal up.

If you press the clutch in it goes away
If you slowly raise the enigne revs up from idle it goes away
It gets worse the more load is on the engine at idle. Turn off the AC, lights, demister etc it goes away.
It's worse when the car is warm

I've been told this is all symptomatic of neutral gear rollover noise - a harmless harmonic vibration of the meshing gears and this model is prone to this, as (I'm told) it doesn't have a dual mass flywheel (??) so at some engine speed you're going to get a resonance. A 'great waster of labour hours' I read it described as somewhere!

Then again someone else quoted me £180 just to take the gearbox out and 'have a look' !!

Who do you/I believe?
 
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GolfTSI

New member
I have exactly the same issue with my Mk6 Golf (a 2012 1.4TSi 6 speed manual with 35k on the clock)

A noisy intrusive clicky tick/rattle coming from the transmision area when the car is idling in neutral with the clutch pedal up.

If you press the clutch in it goes away
If you slowly raise the enigne revs up from idle it goes away
It gets worse the more load is on the engine at idle. Turn off the AC, lights, demister etc it goes away.
It's worse when the car is warm

I've been told this is all symptomatic of neutral gear rollover noise - a harmless harmonic vibration of the meshing gears and this model is prone to this, as (I'm told) it doesn't have a dual mass flywheel (??) so at some engine speed you're going to get a resonance. A 'great waster of labour hours' I read it described as somewhere!

Then again someone else quoted me £180 just to take the gearbox out and 'have a look' !!

Who do you/I believe?

About 3yr late updating this thread, apologies!

So, after over 3yr of driving and 44,000 more miles, and with the same original clutch and gearbox, I still have the noise, although bizarrely it is less noisy than before.

Having read this and several comments on my youtube video, it seems that the jury is still out as to the cause - it could be a clutch release bearing issue, or indeed as you say a chattering of the gearbox. Good insight ref the fact it doesn't have a DMF - I wonder if that causes resonance. Either way, I suspect this was a design flaw as lots of other Golf and other VAG owners have had the same issue.

It was hard to decide what to do at the time for me, as I didn't want to do nothing only to find that once the warranty period expired something important failed badly as a result of whatever the issue was. However after reading around and asking an independent mechanic, I decided just to 'leave it'. I think right now, touch wood, that it has been the right decision.
 

SnailPower

Autocross Newbie
I didn't hear the noise but it sounds like clutch chatter from how it's been described. I had the exact same thing with the car brand new. I even took it to the dealer to listen to it and he said that it was completely normal.

If it goes away with the clutch pressed in, that is usually a tell-tail sign of it.
 

lamboravi

New member
The noise in the video sounds pretty similar to the noise I observe in my Mk6 Golf R 2.0T. With A/C on, the noise is significantly louder - here is my video with A/C on:

https://youtu.be/I3TVd4WuKbM

78,000 miles on the odometer, but I had a new Stage 2 clutch from ECS and single-mass flywheel installed about 3 months ago. I am not able to tell if the rattle worsens or gets better while driving because the normal sound from the engine/road then becomes dominant.

Some basic googling suggests the transmission input shaft bearing is nearing retirement rather than the throw-out bearing since the rattle disappears upon depressing the clutch and reappears upon release.

I am considering taking my car to the shop that installed my Stage 2 clutch/SMF for inspection and praying for a non-terrible bill.

UPDATE: The shop took a look and declared it the standard chatter/gear lash associated with a SMF.
 
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sterkrazzy

Autocross Champion
That just sounds like regular smfw chatter to me, lamb.
 

kris256

New member
A few years late to this thread. I have what sounds like the same chatter everyone else is noting when idling with the clutch up.
I will tell you what I have done that has not solved it to save some others the hassle.

It is not the dual-mass flywheel, I have replaced mine with a single mass and the issue is still there.
It is not the throwout bearing, As one of the posters mentioned above that would only apply when the clutch is pressed anyway.
I don't think it is the transmission input shaft bearing either. The reason for that is I pulled another transmission out of a different TDI (about 1/3 as many miles as mine) and dropped it in and the sound is identical to the prior transmission. This was good to know honestly because I was afraid that transmission was going to blow up on me going down the road and it turns out it may have been irrelevant.

After all that the same sound persists. I have no idea what it is, but as the posters have mentioned above, I think it is simply chatter and I am just going to deal with it and get some hood insulation to help the sound (mine is missing)

I am curios to know though, does anyone think this sound might always be there and is not being properly dampened because the rubber on the lower engine/trans mount might be worn?
 

GolNat

Autocross Champion
A few years late to this thread. I have what sounds like the same chatter everyone else is noting when idling with the clutch up.
I will tell you what I have done that has not solved it to save some others the hassle.

It is not the dual-mass flywheel, I have replaced mine with a single mass and the issue is still there.
It is not the throwout bearing, As one of the posters mentioned above that would only apply when the clutch is pressed anyway.
I don't think it is the transmission input shaft bearing either. The reason for that is I pulled another transmission out of a different TDI (about 1/3 as many miles as mine) and dropped it in and the sound is identical to the prior transmission. This was good to know honestly because I was afraid that transmission was going to blow up on me going down the road and it turns out it may have been irrelevant.

After all that the same sound persists. I have no idea what it is, but as the posters have mentioned above, I think it is simply chatter and I am just going to deal with it and get some hood insulation to help the sound (mine is missing)

I am curios to know though, does anyone think this sound might always be there and is not being properly dampened because the rubber on the lower engine/trans mount might be worn?

I think it could have always been there. I noticed chatter when I went to stiffer mounts.
 
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