Technical Understanding of the IHI (Why does my Power FALL off?)

How incompetent can people be that they don't even know the turbo that is in the vehicle they drive? How can we sticky a discussion on this forum when the topic being talked about is a turbo that we dont even have in our cars! We have a IHI not a K03 for the love of god people learn what the hell you are talking about.

ChippedGTI said:

How incompetent can people be that they don't even know the turbo that is in the vehicle they drive? How can we sticky a discussion on this forum when the topic being talked about is a turbo that we dont even have in our cars! We have a IHI not a K03 for the love of god people learn what the hell you are talking about.

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It was a simple mistake. You learn something new everyday. I knew all along there was a similarity between IHI and K03, even when I made the thread. The point was to provide the understanding of why the power fell off so drastically. Not to compare the two, or make it a pissing match. Thats why it was stickied.

ChippedGTI said:

How incompetent can people be that they don't even know the turbo that is in the vehicle they drive? How can we sticky a discussion on this forum when the topic being talked about is a turbo that we dont even have in our cars! We have a IHI not a K03 for the love of god people learn what the hell you are talking about.

Click to expand...

:sm3:

Great post!!! :thumbsup:

This days I´ve been searching for tech info like this .

My question is:

Which is the cause of the extra power in the 2.0 TSI compared with EA113 + k03????

Is the new engine EA888 or the IHI??

First of all ---> IHI Turbo vs k03:

About that I´ve got contradictory data based on my own experience and data logging.

On the one hand, if we only read the maximun pressure generated at 6k rpm the k03 may be larger than IHI:

k03 --> can get 1 bar at 6000 rpm (TFSI + STG 2 (CAI + DP))
IHI ----> can get 0,84 bars at 6000 rpm (TSI + STG 1 + CAI)

But, on the other hand, the same day we got this maximun pressures in VCDS, we also roll the dyno in both cars with the same weather conditions, and we got this:

Dyno Graph: TSI with STG 1 + CAI vs TFSI with STG 2 (CAI + DP))



So the TSI only needs 0.84 bars to generate more TOP END POWER (280Cv cranck), than the TFSI with 1 bar (274Cv cranck with more mods than the TSI).

This could indicate the IHI is bigger than the k03 --> with less pressure at 6k get more HP.

Other data could indicate the IHI is between the k03 and the k04 is this:

K03 ---> Load a 2000 rpm
IHI ----> Load a 2500 rpm
K04 ----> Load a 3000 rpm

Considering same displacement 2.0 liters, the IHI is bigger than the k03 and smaller than the k04.

You could also see this behavior in the above graffic on the dyno, below 2500 rpm the k03 has more torque than the IHI due to his small size, but beyond 2500 rpm the IHI has more power...same test could be done when you compare the IHI vs K04....

So, the time turbo takes to load with same displacement indicates turbo size

Second matter --> TSI/EA888 vs TFSI/EA113

Everybody knows the new TSI is an upgrade of the TFSI engine:

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showpost.php?p=460199&postcount=8

So this could be the reason why the TSI performs better than the TFSI.

I mean if data about the turbo size are finally proven (with data not opinions ) we could determinated where the extra power comes:

1.- If IHI > K03 -------- extra power in TSIs would come from the turbo not the new engine

2.- If K03 > IHI -------- extra power in TSIs would come from the new engine not the turbo.

In conclusion, if we have a better engine block (TSI), with a bigger turbo like a k04 we could get more TOP END than a TFSI (rated in 360Cv cranck with a STG 2+)

Sorry for all this heavy data

Best regards.

there are so many more factors other than the turbo that explain why the tsi makes more power

the TSI(ea888 w/ IHI turbo) has a better flowing head, stronger rods, better fuel system including direct injection, and is chain driven

the FSI(ea113 w/ k03) actually has a stronger block...and the "new" ea113 w/ k04 has a stronger bottom end and better cams

these factors make it impossible to compare the differences in the IHI turbo on the tsi and the k03 on the fsi based off of dynos of the two

DRedman45 said:

there are so many more factors other than the turbo that explain why the tsi makes more power

the TSI(ea888 w/ IHI turbo) has a better flowing head, stronger rods, better fuel system including direct injection, and is chain driven

the FSI(ea113 w/ k03) actually has a stronger block...and the "new" ea113 w/ k04 has a stronger bottom end and better cams

these factors make it impossible to compare the differences in the IHI turbo on the tsi and the k03 on the fsi based off of dynos of the two

Click to expand...

We agree "there are so many more factors other than the turbo that explain why the tsi makes more power"

As I said, there can be two factor, the engine or the turbo:

You told, in other post, IHI is smaller than k03 (any tech data to prove that??) so the extra power wolud come from the new TSI engine (better HPFP, I think is the main reason).

So if we have a better engine block (TSI), with a bigger turbo like a k04 + TSI we could get more TOP END than a TFSI + KO4 (rated in 360Cv cranck with a STG 2+).

What do you think?

Regards :w00t:

Peteriroc said:

We agree "there are so many more factors other than the turbo that explain why the tsi makes more power"

As I said, there can be two factor, the engine or the turbo:

You told, in other post, IHI is smaller than k03 (any tech data to prove that??) so the extra power wolud come from the new TSI engine (better HPFP, I think is the main reason).

So if we have a better engine block (TSI), with a bigger turbo like a k04 + TSI we could get more TOP END than a TFSI + KO4 (rated in 360Cv cranck with a STG 2+).

What do you think?

Regards :w00t:

Click to expand...

I do not know the exact compressor, tubrine, ar on the IHI and k03, but i do know for a fact the k03 has a slightly larger cold side

The tsi will make more power than an equally moded fsi for sure for k03, k04, gt28, or gt30...the fsi however has a stronger block and can support more bore than the tsi, so the huge HP fsi's still have the stage 3+ tsi's beat :thumbsup:

DRedman45 said:

I do not know the exact compressor, tubrine, ar on the IHI and k03, but i do know for a fact the k03 has a slightly larger cold side

The tsi will make more power than an equally moded fsi for sure for k03, k04, gt28, or gt30...the fsi however has a stronger block and can support more bore than the tsi, so the huge HP fsi's still have the stage 3+ tsi's beat :thumbsup:

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This is what Mike@Forge said about new TSI´s

- Lower compression forged pistons
- strengthened connecting rods
- enlarged wrist pins
- stronger piston rings
- upgraded bearings
- reinforced engine block
- upgraded camshafts (longer duration, same lift)
- upgraded injectors (+13% flow)
- larger K04 turbo producing 1.2 bar of boost (+3 PSI over K03 equipped GTI)
- larger intercooler (+30%)
- relocated bypass valve

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showpost.php?p=460199&postcount=8

For his words I undestand TSI has a stonger block no??

There is also this pictures from APR...





Anyway the only reason for the extra powe is a better HPFP the other data aims to durability not performance.

What do you think DRedman45?? :w00t:

Best regards

I agree with you completely...i have been haha

internally the tsi is stronger stock than the fsi for sure...the actual block itself is stronger on the fsi though....that, plus the easy to upgrade fueling, and the availability of more aftermarket internals(cams, valvetrain, big bore pistons) is the only thing the fsi has going over the tsi

in a couple years when we start getting aftermarket cams with ported and polished heads with an apr stage 3+ set up there will be huge numbers out of the tsi

DRedman45 said:

I agree with you completely...i have been haha

internally the tsi is stronger stock than the fsi for sure...the actual block itself is stronger on the fsi though....that, plus the easy to upgrade fueling, and the availability of more aftermarket internals(cams, valvetrain, big bore pistons) is the only thing the fsi has going over the tsi

in a couple years when we start getting aftermarket cams with ported and polished heads with an apr stage 3+ set up there will be huge numbers out of the tsi

Click to expand...

+100

Time will clarify the TSI vs TFSI performance :thumbsup:

Here you are a K03 from a TFSI





These are the Turbo Oulet Pipe from a k03 vs k04



:thumbsup:

Which is bigger?

Bets are accepted :laugh:

IHI




K03

:w00t:

having seen a removed K03 and IHI side by side, i would confidently say the IHI is larger.
But its only larger by a tiny amount, talking 5-10% in physical size.

My GTI 2012 seems to pull hard to the redline at 6000rpm..... very different then the brickwall feeling from the MK5 i drove 2 years ago.

Smellybumlove said:

having seen a removed K03 and IHI side by side, i would confidently say the IHI is larger.
But its only larger by a tiny amount, talking 5-10% in physical size.

My GTI 2012 seems to pull hard to the redline at 6000rpm..... very different then the brickwall feeling from the MK5 i drove 2 years ago.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info Smelly..:thumbsup:

If you don´t mind could you upload us a pic of the IHI Turbo :w00t:...all pictures I´ve got I can not see the whole turbine of the turbo...just for a visual comparation.

Thanks in advance

cant help with pictures, i just remember it because i was having my Skoda Yeti mapped at MTM Taiwan and they had tons of MK5 gti K03 turbos that were broken and there was a MK6 gti which was having a K04 swap installed, thats how i saw the IHI.