Stage2 2004 STI vs. Stock 2010 GTI

nec9 said:

I appreciate all the info guys. I think if going stage1 is as much as a difference as you all say it is then it has definitely shot to the top of my mod list.

As far as brand... I hear a lot about APR. But I also hear that it is the most expensive brand as well. Is it worth the money? I live in the Seattle area so the only place I know of around here that does tuning is Achtuning in Bellevue. And I believe they are APR vendors. I was thinking of checking them out soon.

Basically my mod list so far is: Stage1 tune, catback, golf r tails, wheels, coilovers, downpipe, intake, stage2 tune. Probably in that order too.

Sidenote: how easy is it to go back to stock tune on the car? With the STI I had a Cobb Accessport and was easily able to flash any OTS map at any time. The GTI doesn't have a piggyback flasher correct? So would I need to take it back into the shop to go back to stock if I ever needed to? Also, do downpipes, intakes, etc throw codes if I don't have the tune for them?

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If you don't plan on going to K04, cause that's when you start considering things like Big Turbo, F23, and Water/Meth. APR should be fine. Didn't even notice you're from the Seattle area, but yeah. Achtuning does good work. I wouldn't buy things from them since they are pretty expensive, but they are some nice people.

Personally, I actually regret going APR because I'm feeling the more power bug and their K04 software is a bit more conservative, but who knows in the future if it will be. Anyways, if you're just going to stay at Stage 2 in the end, then APR is fine. If you want to get more power in the end, I'd go Uni or GIAC. I know Cantrell is GIAC, Fine Tuning is Uni. Cantrell is chill, haven't been there but Red Matrix (I think) in OR vouches for them. Fine Tuning, I'm not quite sure.

All in all, other than APR, you'd be hard pressed to find other tuners in Seattle. Talked to Garrett over at Driver Motorsport and it seems like it may take awhile before we get any other tuners other than your big 3.

nec9 said:

I appreciate all the info guys. I think if going stage1 is as much as a difference as you all say it is then it has definitely shot to the top of my mod list.

As far as brand... I hear a lot about APR. But I also hear that it is the most expensive brand as well. Is it worth the money? I live in the Seattle area so the only place I know of around here that does tuning is Achtuning in Bellevue. And I believe they are APR vendors. I was thinking of checking them out soon.

Basically my mod list so far is: Stage1 tune definitely, catback only really for sound, it won't give you much more than 3hp, golf r tails amazeballs, wheels and sticky summer tires, coilovers and RSB, downpipe yes, intake yes, stage2 tune and yes. Probably in that order too.

Sidenote: how easy is it to go back to stock tune on the car? With the STI I had a Cobb Accessport and was easily able to flash any OTS map at any time. The GTI doesn't have a piggyback flasher correct? So would I need to take it back into the shop to go back to stock if I ever needed to? Also, do downpipes, intakes, etc throw codes if I don't have the tune for them?

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APR has APR mobile (an app on your phone paired to a $200 OBDII dongle) for logging and tune switching. Without APR mobile you can switch tunes while the car is off via the cruise control stalk. They're coming out with some new features like torque limiting (because fwd) that should be adjustable via APR Mobile.

Other tuners have other interfaces for switching tunes. I think Unitronic and GIAC and DM use AP-like dongles. Revo has the SPS, an AP-like dongle, too.

All tuners perform similarly at stage 1 so it's all a question of which features you like and what you're willing to pay for them. Keep in mind that they all pretty much have seasonal sales that may save you a couple hundred.

eldiablo said:

sounds like a good plan.

The initial tune will require your tuner to remove the ECU, crack it open and then re-seal / re-install after tuned. Subsequent tunes can be done via OBD-II port.** Loaded tunes can be switched via the cruise control stalk or manufacture specific device (APR has a bluetooth dongle).

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**Unless you switch tuners, then they have to re-flash to stock and re-defeat the encryption.

squall said:

make sure you put a clutch at the top of your list if you plan on tuning the car. the stocker cant hold the power past the factory levels for too long.

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This. I slipped after 3k miles of stage 1.

nec9 said:

Ah yes! Definitely. Which one would you recommend? Do you think I'll need one for stage1 or can I hold off until I go stage2?

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If you like the OEM NVH and engagement, go for the HST RSR kit. Otherwise, you're looking at exotic materials like feramic or "formula button" (feramic/organic mix) that engage choppily. Single mass FW's on these cars make a lot of gear lash chatter.

Appogee said:

If you don't plan on going to K04, cause that's when you start considering things like Big Turbo, F23, and Water/Meth. APR should be fine. Didn't even notice you're from the Seattle area, but yeah. Achtuning does good work. I wouldn't buy things from them since they are pretty expensive, but they are some nice people.

Personally, I actually regret going APR because I'm feeling the more power bug and their K04 software is a bit more conservative, but who knows in the future if it will be. Anyways, if you're just going to stay at Stage 2 in the end, then APR is fine. If you want to get more power in the end, I'd go Uni or GIAC. I know Cantrell is GIAC, Fine Tuning is Uni. Cantrell is chill, haven't been there but Red Matrix (I think) in OR vouches for them. Fine Tuning, I'm not quite sure.

All in all, other than APR, you'd be hard pressed to find other tuners in Seattle. Talked to Garrett over at Driver Motorsport and it seems like it may take awhile before we get any other tuners other than your big 3.

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Thanks for the insight. Yeah I'm still on the fence on how long I want to keep the car. It's fun for now but I'm definitely a car hopper and enthusiast. I just want to try all the things. That being said, I don't know how much money I want to put into it yet. But I think I will stop by Achtuning soon.

If you like the OEM NVH and engagement, go for the HST RSR kit. Otherwise, you're looking at exotic materials like feramic or "formula button" (feramic/organic mix) that engage choppily. Single mass FW's on these cars make a lot of gear lash chatter.

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Dang. Is there a cheaper alternative to the HST RSR kit? Not even my STI Exedy clutch ran that much... Also, you said you felt it slip after 3k miles... how aggressive were you with it? Is it possible to baby the stock clutch and not have to worry about it for awhile? Or should I just throw down the full $1600 for clutch+stage1?

Not sure what your style is, but I hate APR's Stage1/2 tunes. They're not OEM feeling at all, IMO.

All of this being said, yes to all of your mods.

I've heard of a bunch of people who go thousands and thousands of miles on stock clutch even at Stage 2. I'm DSG though, so no problem here

Went GIAC with my car. It is a lot smoother than the APR flash I had in my MKV.
GIAC, from what I gather, does not deaden the rear O2 sensor like APR. So if you want to go to a higher stage, you will need a decent cat not to throw a code. This was a no brainer for me, as I didn't want to fail inspection, but I don't know what down pipe could ever allow me to pass, except for maybe techtonics Tuning or the AWE downpipe.

nec9 said:

Haha! Nice! Good choice... the new style looks sick. I've always been a diehard 04/05 body style guy but I've definitely swayed with the new gen. And yeah thats something I never had to worry about. Going from stock to stage2 in a STI? No problems with clutch lol.

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yeah i used to have an 05...loved the blobeye style. i never had a clutch problem with that car even with an fp green and then a gt35r.

nec9 said:

Dang. Is there a cheaper alternative to the HST RSR kit? Not even my STI Exedy clutch ran that much... Also, you said you felt it slip after 3k miles... how aggressive were you with it? Is it possible to baby the stock clutch and not have to worry about it for awhile? Or should I just throw down the full $1600 for clutch+stage1?

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Best way to approach it is that stage 1 is a $1600 mod. It sure as hell feels like one. Don't do the clutch unless you slip, though.

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