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driving 6M clutchless?

A

aw6141

Go Kart Champion
good thing to know incase something does happen and you can't drive with a clutch.

I've tried to do it a few times on my old car, but I wimp out every time and go back to using the clutch, it would have helped being able to shift without a clutch when the master cylinder and slave cylinder failed due to age on my civic and I had to limp it home less than two miles in first gear.
 
S

sprytdi

Ready to race!
I've driven by clutch-less shifting for years, across many many different vehicle platforms of almost damn near every application of transportation needs. It doesn't hurt anything "if" you can do it. I put 54,000mi on one dump truck back in the day, never had an issue with clutch or synchro's, my rx-7, 944t, the R, my old Volvo 240dl wagon, street and dirt bikes, never had clutch or synchro failure. You will damage the synchro's 10 faster by shifting too fast with the clutch, trying to jam a shift, before you would ever damage them clutch less shifting, properly
 
McFuzz

McFuzz

Go Kart Champion
My pops used to drive like that all the time on his Russian ripoff of a Fiat 124 (synchronizers? lawsl!). The transmission and clutch were the only thing on the car that did not require any replacements...
 
gti_kev

gti_kev

Go Kart Champion
lol I'll never do it on mine. but the way I'll do in other cars is, I'll drive and softly pull/push the shift knob untill its safely out WITHOUT grinding. majority of the cars I've driven, they've been around 3k-4k rpms. it's funny to do it and show other people.:lol::lol::lol::lol::clap:
 
D Griff

D Griff

Go Kart Champion
All you guys that are like "OMGZZZ THIS IS SO BAD FOR YOUR CAR BLAH!!!!" are trolling sheep until you actually explain how it is bad for your car.

I've done this plenty of times in numerous cars and it's easy to match the revs properly. I'm honestly am not sure if it has any positive or negative effects but I presume it's fine, I've never grinded or felt any ill effects from it.
 
D Griff

D Griff

Go Kart Champion
GTI_likeurmom said:
cuz grinding gears is bad for your car
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D Griff said:
All you guys that are like "OMGZZZ THIS IS SO BAD FOR YOUR CAR BLAH!!!!" are trolling sheep until you actually explain how it is bad for your car.

I've done this plenty of times in numerous cars and it's easy to match the revs properly. I'm honestly am not sure if it has any positive or negative effects but I presume it's fine, I've never grinded or felt any ill effects from it.
Click to expand...

Like I said... I've done this many, many times and never grinded gears. I've done it in my GTI a few times, my Civic, my Miata, some truck type things, some other Hondas...
 
johnny_p

johnny_p

Go Kart Champion
If you do it wrong you can damage the synchros. If you do it right you won't damage anything at all.

Here's the theory at least.....

Accelerate in gear
Coast
Gently apply pressure to move the gear stick back to neutral, it will go on its own
Let revs drop a little
Apply a little pressure again and it will slip in on its own
Accelerate

If you do this with your foot off the gas there is essentially zero power being transmitted through the transmission, no wear on the synchro. The gears will mesh on their own when the correct engine speed is reached. And if you're light with the stick, the wear and tear on the synchro will be nothing since you're not forcing anything.
 
Baldeagle

Baldeagle

Ready to race!
Even though you can shift without a clutch in almost any road car’s manual transmission, it does not mean they are designed for it. Here is an article that compares a race car’s transmission, in which it is okay to not use the clutch, and a regular car’s manual transmission.

http://www.circletrack.com/techarticles/road_racing_transmission_tech/

Here is a quote:

"The dog mechanism that shifts a racing transmission is just a face-tooth engagement, while a stock transmission has splines that engage each other on the internal part of the slider. If you miss a gear, it burrs up that spline, then the slider won't slide on the hub, and it locks it up so that you are really stuck. On a face-tooth system, if you miss a gear for whatever reason--maybe you fell asleep or something--it doesn't affect the thing from continuing to shift because it doesn't affect the spline it slides on."

In our car, unless you hit that shift perfectly every time which is nearly impossible, you risk damaging the spline. If you shift with no clutch once or twice just to see if you can, fine, most of us have done it. But make a habit of it and you’ll probably regret it. Our transmissions are designed to use the clutch. They are not NASCAR cars or trucks.
 
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johnny_p

johnny_p

Go Kart Champion
You have a synchro to ensure you don't damage the splines....

When you select a gear, you're moving the selector fork and dog gear into position. It first meshes with the synchro which is usually brass. This brass toothed ring rubs against the forged steel gear and gets the dog gear up to speed. Then when the speeds are right you can push the selector fork all the remaining way, and the dog fully engages the next gear set. This usually happens in tenths of a second.

Its all about matching the ratio of the input/output shaft speeds to the gear ratio. If you don't force it you won't do any damage. If you force it you WILL have a problem.

Here's a good picture of what a selector fork and 2 gear sets look like. This would be like the 1-2 or 3-4 selector. The selector is in the center. The synchro rings are to the left and right, the little toothed things. Then the gear engagement splines are next to those little teeth.

 
D Griff

D Griff

Go Kart Champion
GTI_likeurmom said:
yeah we know you said that
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^ This guy... I guess you think I'm lying to show off my macho internet manual skillz :w00t:

Baldeagle said:
Even though you can shift without a clutch in almost any road car’s manual transmission, it does not mean they are designed for it. Here is an article that compares a race car’s transmission, in which it is okay to not use the clutch, and a regular car’s manual transmission.

http://www.circletrack.com/techarticles/road_racing_transmission_tech/

Here is a quote:

"The dog mechanism that shifts a racing transmission is just a face-tooth engagement, while a stock transmission has splines that engage each other on the internal part of the slider. If you miss a gear, it burrs up that spline, then the slider won't slide on the hub, and it locks it up so that you are really stuck. On a face-tooth system, if you miss a gear for whatever reason--maybe you fell asleep or something--it doesn't affect the thing from continuing to shift because it doesn't affect the spline it slides on."

In our car, unless you hit that shift perfectly every time which is nearly impossible, you risk damaging the spline. If you shift with no clutch once or twice just to see if you can, fine, most of us have done it. But make a habit of it and you’ll probably regret it. Our transmissions are designed to use the clutch. They are not NASCAR cars or trucks.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the article. It seemed focused on downshifting without the clutch which I've never tried, that would be much tougher to do correctly and I'd probably grind trying to learn so that's not going to happen. But it pretty much tells me that when I upshift seamlessly with no clutch and no grind, no hard is done.
 
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