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How does a dogbone make a difference?

corman1313

corman1313

Ready to race!
jay745 said:
Well... Those other components you listed don't add nvh at all so I'm confused on the comparison.
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Do you know what NVH means?

So switching to a stiffer suspension like coilsovers doesn't add any harshness?

Adding larger sway bars doesn't add vibrations or harshness?

Adding collar kits and larger bolts doesn't add to stiffness and harshness of the car?

Adding more bracing to the car doesn't add harshness?

I'm confused if you are being serious or not lol

Anything you add to the car that is not OEM for the GTI will add some sort of NVH, again I am not sure if you are being serious or not.

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MrFancypants

MrFancypants

Autocross Champion
HYDE16 said:
For higher HP applications I highly recommend the VWR subframe mount (upper and lower) with the APR pendulum arm/dogbone. This setup has proven to be extremely street friendly and is engineered to avoid the broken bits.
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Do you run those with 034 Street engine and transmission mounts?
 
bart2278

bart2278

Go Kart Champion
HYDE16 said:
For higher HP applications I highly recommend the VWR subframe mount (upper and lower) with the APR pendulum arm/dogbone. This setup has proven to be extremely street friendly and is engineered to avoid the broken bits.
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When you say higher HP, are you talking about you big turbo cats or are we talking k04? It's too late for me as I have the red puck & torque solution dogbone, but I'm just curious.
 
jay745

jay745

What Would Glenn Danzig Do
corman1313 said:
Do you know what NVH means?
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Yes, My build thread is well documented and I just went back to read my impressions of the components to see if I mentioned anything like that.

corman1313 said:
So switching to a stiffer suspension like coilsovers doesn't add any harshness?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say it does. Sure you feel bumps in the road more but that's hardly classified as nvh.

corman1313 said:
Adding larger sway bars doesn't add vibrations or harshness?
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None at all. They give you more stability in turns but zero nvh.

corman1313 said:
Adding collar kits and larger bolts doesn't add to stiffness and harshness of the car?
Click to expand...
Not at all. If anything collar kits reduce the subframes from clunking (noise)

corman1313 said:
Adding more bracing to the car doesn't add harshness?
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I wouldn't say it does, again these are stability mods. Nothing that adds any nvh.

corman1313 said:
I'm confused if you are being serious or not lol

Anything you add to the car that is not OEM for the GTI will add some sort of NVH, again I am not sure if you are being serious or not.
Click to expand...

Likewise, I can't tell if you're trolling or you don't know what nvh is.


I have bfi stage 2 motor and trans mounts, 034 pendulum, hpa puck, eurosport rear hatch brace, unibrace UB and RB, KMD lower front subframe brace, full poly bushings all around. My car rattles your teeth out of your head. I did almost every component separately to be able to gauge exactly what each does and documented the impressions of each. I can say for certainty that bracing, sway bars, and coilovers don't add NVH.
 
corman1313

corman1313

Ready to race!
Noise/Vibration/Harshness

Definition of harshness: the quality of being unpleasantly rough or jarring to the senses.
Plain and simple, all of the mods I listed added harshness for me.

I guess we all have different definitions of what those mean to us.

No troll here, OP asked about pendulum mount and I gave my feedback on the 3 I've used and compared to the other components I have swapped out. Again I think you are completely wrong in your definition because I shared the definition with you and all of the mods listed add to stiffness which creates harshness.



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lilonespaz

lilonespaz

Drag Race Newbie
corman1313 said:
I had all mounts on my car, 034 engine, Trans, dogbone and billet insert. I switched to the 034 dogbone after trashing the bushing on the Spulen dogbone and now I am back to stock dogbone with all other 034 mounts. I will say that without the engine and Trans mounts you will notice a greater difference but I don't aggree that you have to switch out the OEM dogbone if you have the others upgraded, opposite actually. With less play from the upgraded engine and trans mounts there isn't as much play on the dogbone, you can simply upgrade to a torque insert or yes the puck and that should clean up any play or stress on the dogbone.
I liked the Spulen better than the 034 dogbone because it was a little softer with the bushing and not the spherical bearing, the 034 dogbone added so much more NVH than any other suspension mod I have done and I have H&R coils, UB, hatch brace, front and rear sways with endlinks and front and rear subframe kits lol.

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Click to expand...

People replace them because the OEM mounts have been known to snap when other parts are changed... even just having a insert puts more stress on the dogbone and could cause it to snap.

There are a few cases on here where people with just the insert snapped their dogbone and ripped their transmission case bolt housing... crush AC lines and other costly damages.

Also your coils and sways didnt add vibrations they are not directly connected to the motor/transmission


jay745 said:
Well... Those other components you listed don't add nvh at all so I'm confused on the comparison.
Click to expand...
This...
 
corman1313

corman1313

Ready to race!
Still don't aggree with you, I gave you the definition. Those components stiffen the suspension which in turn creates a harsher ride, I didn't say vibrations, I said harsher ride, you know the H in NVH lol.
I know plenty of guys that track their cars and have had other mounts upgraded and not the dogbone and it hasn't snapped.
Again OP asked for feedback and it was given.

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jay745

jay745

What Would Glenn Danzig Do
corman1313 said:
Still don't aggree with you, I gave you the definition. Those components stiffen the suspension which in turn creates a harsher ride, I didn't say vibrations, I said harsher ride, you know the H in NVH lol.
I know plenty of guys that track their cars and have had other mounts upgraded and not the dogbone and it hasn't snapped.
Again OP asked for feedback and it was given.

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Click to expand...

Hey thanks for the feedback. The great thing about life is that people can disagree on things and life still goes on. I guess I just categorize it differently. The harshness all depends on the road conditions so it's all relative anyways. If you have a smooth road, coilovers won't be any more harsh in my opinion. The quality of coilovers you get will also direct how harsh it is. You get what you pay for essentially.
 
Jaber

Jaber

Modero
corman1313 said:
Still don't aggree with you, I gave you the definition. Those components stiffen the suspension which in turn creates a harsher ride, I didn't say vibrations, I said harsher ride, you know the H in NVH lol.
I know plenty of guys that track their cars and have had other mounts upgraded and not the dogbone and it hasn't snapped.
Again OP asked for feedback and it was given.

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Click to expand...

I'll agree here, NVH can come from other areas, besides the powertrain. Some bushings can squeak, causing noise and obviously stiffer bushings, creating a harsher ride and don't absorb the vibrations as much as the OE rubber. Even tires can increase NVH, if they're noisy, smaller sidewall will increase harshness.

But yeah, there's a chance the pendulum never snaps on a particular car. The owner will have to weight their risk factor, depending on how they drive and what they participate. Autox, drag racing, hooning, track day, showz, or just daily driver.
 
bart2278

bart2278

Go Kart Champion
I went ahead and bought one, bc I'd rather spend the 150 now and not 1.5k+ later...ask me how I know
 
S

samage80

Passed Driver's Ed
So reading through this, I'm getting the indication that the insert improves the slop but can put more strain on the OEM pendulum mount... and therefore if upgrading the insert it would be wise to upgrade the pendulum mount at the same time, correct?

I'm totally stock everywhere (mount-wise) and was just leaning towards the insert, but feeling uneasy and may do both insert + pendulum.

Power goal of the car is stage 1+, perhaps e-tune to push it as close as I can before requiring a new clutch.
 
bart2278

bart2278

Go Kart Champion
Jaber said:
Ok, only cause you asked. How :D
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Well I went cheap on a turbo, refurb f23t, and it has bit me in the ass. rubber hose came loose, one of the ones attached to the n75. Oil seal leaked in the turbo. Rear main seal started leaking. blah blah blah $3200 later & and IE k04 and I'm wishing I just went a good ole' k04. I'm getting other shit done too while it's in, like the chain tensioner, carbon cleaning, & Updated billet rear main seal so I guess it's not all bad.

Moral of the story is, just buy the right part the first time.
 
lilonespaz

lilonespaz

Drag Race Newbie
samage80 said:
So reading through this, I'm getting the indication that the insert improves the slop but can put more strain on the OEM pendulum mount... and therefore if upgrading the insert it would be wise to upgrade the pendulum mount at the same time, correct?

I'm totally stock everywhere (mount-wise) and was just leaning towards the insert, but feeling uneasy and may do both insert + pendulum.

Power goal of the car is stage 1+, perhaps e-tune to push it as close as I can before requiring a new clutch.
Click to expand...

im running just the insert(have been for like 8 months to a year and will be adding the APR pendulum mount soonish due to seeing the thread of the guys whos transmission cracked due to the pendulum snapping. More of a precaution than a large gain im expecting on the mount over the insert.

bart2278 said:
Well I went cheap on a turbo, refurb f23t, and it has bit me in the ass. rubber hose came loose, one of the ones attached to the n75. Oil seal leaked in the turbo. Rear main seal started leaking. blah blah blah $3200 later & and IE k04 and I'm wishing I just went a good ole' k04. I'm getting other shit done too while it's in, like the chain tensioner, carbon cleaning, & Updated billet rear main seal so I guess it's not all bad.

Moral of the story is, just buy the right part the first time.
Click to expand...
yeah unfortunately some things are worth getting cheap and others are not.
 
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