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Old 03-01-2012, 03:24 PM   #183
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Same result. Thank you.

If he needs verification by hand I can easily do a basic calculation for him to see as well...
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Old 03-01-2012, 03:27 PM   #184
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The people that hate leasing the most are the ones that understand them the least.
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Old 03-01-2012, 03:29 PM   #185
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Lets use the same retarded logic then...

Lease payments=499/*1.06(tax) =528.94*36=19041+1999= 21040.84

Plus
$20,293 "value at lease end"

So you pay a total of $41338.84

Nearly identical to what you would pay at 5% interest, so finance the car at a good rate and come out on top.
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Old 03-01-2012, 03:42 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by maxtdi View Post
Lets use the same retarded logic then...

Lease payments=499/*1.06(tax) =528.94*36=19041+1999= 21040.84

Plus
$20,293 "value at lease end"

So you pay a total of $41338.84

Nearly identical to what you would pay at 5% interest, so finance the car at a good rate and come out on top.
No need to get offended because you didn't understand. I put the numbers in a calculator and they told me what to tell you. Nothing retarded about it.

NOW, in the lease scenario I get a new car every 3 years AND stay in warranty/free maintenance. And have ZERO risk on my part in doing so. All while paying the same. Though my payments are almost $200/mo LESS the whole time too

Just in years 4/5 of the purchase will be tires, brakes, spark plugs, 4 oil changes, tire rotations, routine maintenance, etc. And lets hope nothing breaks either. It would take quite a low interest rate to make up for that tangible cost/risk assumed and the intrinsic value of getting a new car every 3 years instead of 5.

And I feel better about either retaining that money in the value or paying it to VW then I do to the bank on interest or the state on taxes... Even if the amount is the same.

-----------------------------

And without going too deep, ANY negotiations done on the purchase price have a greater effect on a lease then they do on a purchase. 2% negotiated discount on a purchaase is 2% of 100%. 2% on this lease is 2% of 43% (4.65% net), just the portion you are paying since the $20,293 residual stays fixed regardless of the purchase price.

Purchase
$36,260 - 2% = $35,534
$35,524 is 98% of $36,260

Lease
$36,260 - $20,293 = $15,967
$36,260 - 2% = $35,534 - $20,293 = $15,241
$15,241 is 95.45% of $15,967

SEE... Same 98% negotiated purchase price yields a 2% discount on the purchase but a 4.55% discount on the lease. (Slightly off of the 4.65% number due to rounding)

Now, the industry average is 92%. Lets run it at 95% because it is an 'R' and its special...

Purchase
$36,260 - 5% = $34,447
$34,446 is 95% of $36,260

Lease
$36,260 - $20,293 = $15,967
$36,260 - 5% = $34,447 - $20,293 = $14,154
$14,154 is 88.6% of $15,967

Same 95% negotiated purchase price yields a 5% discount on the purchase but a 11.4% discount on the lease.

If you think a car salesman or even some idiot finance manager has any idea how this works, you are mistaken. They just see 'purchase price' and run with it. Then, after I get a written offer, they are stuck.

-------- That is why I can't stress the negotiability of a lease enough -------------


This lease is good. Not incredible or earth shattering, just good. It COULD be incredible/earth shattering if you take advantage of their (VW) grossly underestimated residual value and negotiate a little.

Do some of you really pay 100% MSRP on your cars??
Do some of you really not understand that you negotiate leases??

I know with the last 4 cars I have leased that I ended up getting the car out the door for anywhere from 90-94% of what the numbers were when I first walked in....

Last edited by C4L; 03-01-2012 at 05:10 PM.
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Old 03-01-2012, 05:02 PM   #187
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Because VW underestimated the residual.
The residual isn't something that can be negotiated, so this isn't relevant. Unless you somehow can?
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Old 03-01-2012, 05:10 PM   #188
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The residual isn't something that can be negotiated, so this isn't relevant. Unless you somehow can?
I was referencing the value at the end being lower than the actual value of the car. You have equity for free built right in if you choose to take advantage of it by buying the car at lease end.

VW says the Golf R will be worth $20,xxx at the end.
Current 2008 R32's (last year they were sold) are selling for $25k-$28k.

There is no reason to believe the R would not sell this high as well.

I worded that very poorly the first time around.

And you can actually negotiate the lease buy-out amount when you go to buy out the car AT THE END of the lease. So I suppose you can technically negotiate the residual in a way, just not in the way you were thinking or the way I meant it.
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Old 03-01-2012, 05:19 PM   #189
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I have proven you wrong in 99% of the posts you made in this thread with MATH, and yet you still keep kicking and preaching the old twisted version of the truth you can't back up financially, since you can't make the numbers work.

Whenever I post how you're WRONG and back it up with math, you make up a "negotiated #" that is not part of the special ($469 and now $499), which in itself is a pre negotiated figure that is incredibly difficult to attain.

To add insult to injury you claim that any car can be had at a particular % of the MSRP ?! Which is clearly not the case.

Then you state how what I am saying is wrong because you KNOW my math is right. It is just silly.
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Old 03-01-2012, 05:29 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by tmiw View Post
The residual isn't something that can be negotiated, so this isn't relevant. Unless you somehow can?
Sure you can ... overprice the crap out of it by saying how you added $10k in mods and sell it for more ... simple

/end sarcastic trolling.
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:21 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by C4L View Post
No need to get offended because you didn't understand. I put the numbers in a calculator and they told me what to tell you. Nothing retarded about it.

NOW, in the lease scenario I get a new car every 3 years AND stay in warranty/free maintenance. And have ZERO risk on my part in doing so. All while paying the same. Though my payments are almost $200/mo LESS the whole time too

Just in years 4/5 of the purchase will be tires, brakes, spark plugs, 4 oil changes, tire rotations, routine maintenance, etc. And lets hope nothing breaks either. It would take quite a low interest rate to make up for that tangible cost/risk assumed and the intrinsic value of getting a new car every 3 years instead of 5.

And I feel better about either retaining that money in the value or paying it to VW then I do to the bank on interest or the state on taxes... Even if the amount is the same.

-----------------------------

And without going too deep, ANY negotiations done on the purchase price have a greater effect on a lease then they do on a purchase. 2% negotiated discount on a purchaase is 2% of 100%. 2% on this lease is 2% of 43% (4.65% net), just the portion you are paying since the $20,293 residual stays fixed regardless of the purchase price.

Purchase
$36,260 - 2% = $35,534
$35,524 is 98% of $36,260

Lease
$36,260 - $20,293 = $15,967
$36,260 - 2% = $35,534 - $20,293 = $15,241
$15,241 is 95.45% of $15,967

SEE... Same 98% negotiated purchase price yields a 2% discount on the purchase but a 4.55% discount on the lease. (Slightly off of the 4.65% number due to rounding)

Now, the industry average is 92%. Lets run it at 95% because it is an 'R' and its special...

Purchase
$36,260 - 5% = $34,447
$34,446 is 95% of $36,260

Lease
$36,260 - $20,293 = $15,967
$36,260 - 5% = $34,447 - $20,293 = $14,154
$14,154 is 88.6% of $15,967

Same 95% negotiated purchase price yields a 5% discount on the purchase but a 11.4% discount on the lease.

If you think a car salesman or even some idiot finance manager has any idea how this works, you are mistaken. They just see 'purchase price' and run with it. Then, after I get a written offer, they are stuck.

-------- That is why I can't stress the negotiability of a lease enough -------------


This lease is good. Not incredible or earth shattering, just good. It COULD be incredible/earth shattering if you take advantage of their (VW) grossly underestimated residual value and negotiate a little.

Do some of you really pay 100% MSRP on your cars??
Do some of you really not understand that you negotiate leases??

I know with the last 4 cars I have leased that I ended up getting the car out the door for anywhere from 90-94% of what the numbers were when I first walked in....
It's fun to read about negociating when all 500 of the R coming to Canada are already sold. Not much room for negociation there. Fortunately one of thos is going to be mine.
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Old 03-02-2012, 09:17 AM   #192
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It's fun to read about negociating when all 500 of the R coming to Canada are already sold. Not much room for negociation there. Fortunately one of thos is going to be mine.
Interesting that it roughly works out to the same number of R's per capita.
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Old 03-02-2012, 09:24 AM   #193
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I have proven you wrong in 99% of the posts you made in this thread with MATH, and yet you still keep kicking and preaching the old twisted version of the truth you can't back up financially, since you can't make the numbers work.

Whenever I post how you're WRONG and back it up with math, you make up a "negotiated #" that is not part of the special ($469 and now $499), which in itself is a pre negotiated figure that is incredibly difficult to attain.

To add insult to injury you claim that any car can be had at a particular % of the MSRP ?! Which is clearly not the case.

Then you state how what I am saying is wrong because you KNOW my math is right. It is just silly.
You have not proven my math wrong at all. My logic, maybe. I double counted one number once. Thank you.

Failure to understand the difference is why I can't even listen to you anymore.

Practice has proven my theories correct. Others are seeing this now. You are done here. Please be.

My math is not my math but rather a software program designed by Thompson Reuters. You may have a problem with my logic in the deductive reasoning used to interpret the figures represented but at that point it is a problem with the intake of information and not its delivery.

The $499 is calculated at 100% of MSRP. Plain and simple. I have leased A LOT of cars and helped friends and family negotiate leases and NEVER have they paid 100% MSRP or 100% of the advertised offer.

This is NOT a special but rather just the price. I will admit that you need to meet certain credit criteria to obtain this price. That is no different than any sort of interest rate you would be paying when financing. Of course.

On average, cars are attained for 92% of MSRP (NOT my number but a statistical fact). I got my CC, on lease, for 88% MSRP, and my GTI, on lease, at 93% MSRP.

Just becuase you are too dumb to even try to negotiate doesn't mean it can't be done. I have personally done it every single time. Have you really only ever paid MSRP for a car??? That sucks. I have never paid more than 93% MSRP for a car...

The most recent scenario at 100% MSRP on the $499 lease you provided me shows that leasing and buying had the same exact cost. Even though in the purchase you are paying more in interest, more in taxes, have higher payments, and have to keep the car 2 years longer.

YOU provided that conclusion for us...
And I am still being super nice assuming 100% msrp was paid and the difference in payments was NOT saved... Just to make it look closer for you. Sort of a worse case scenario...haha

If none of this still makes sense to you, go to your local dealership and talk to someone there. I have shared many parts of this convo with several co-workers now. We have concluded that if everybody understood it, they would do it, like us.

Here in my office (Fortune 500 company in financial services business), those of us that like cars, we lease, invest the savings in payments, and always come out on top.
Of course there are those that are driving 10+ year old Camrys and Accords who couldn't care less either way.

That is the two options you have;
- Lease, invest the savings in payments, get a new car every 3 years
- Buy and drive it till it dies or is too expensive to keep, get a new car every 6-8+ years.

Both will allow for a good financial outcome.

Good luck in thinking like a lay person.

Last edited by C4L; 03-02-2012 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 03-02-2012, 09:31 AM   #194
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Old 03-02-2012, 09:42 AM   #195
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:03 AM   #196
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The only question I have is whether this is a great image on the internet, or the greatest one.
just great.
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