Question about rev matching

Erwan said:

Well I disagree, heel-toe isn't "reserved" for the track. You can practice the basics of it on the street, I do and I feel it helps me on the track.

Click to expand...

I did practiced it on streets too and it works but the heel-toe isnt need to drive better in streets.

ghostwind said:

I still think the best place to practice it is on the track. Also on the street, as a technique, I don't see why one would do it (unless it's just for fun - which is OK I suppose). While on the other hand, rev-matching should absolutely be done all the time. On track, both need to be done all the time. That's the difference.

Another thing is obviously car to car pedal variation and brake assist. Some cars like the GTI have a LOT of brake assist - too much so for me anyways, very mushy. At first I thought there might be some air in the lines, so I flushed the fluid which helped a tiny bit, but still too much assist. So the pedal goes down far even under "gentler" braking. On my 911, this is not the case. So yeah, there's this factor as well.

Don't know. To each his own. But yeah, I have seen over the years people coming to the track with incorrect heel-toe technique that they learned on the street. You really need some clear roads with hard braking zones and no cops!

BTW, Erwan - what's your track set-up? Stock rotors/calipers?

Click to expand...

Currently stock calipers and rotors, carbotech xp10 up front and xp8 pads on the rear. SS lines up front (not rear yet). Ate superblue fluid - I need rear ss lines though, next purchase haha

I'd agree that rev-matching should be as natural on-street as it is on-track, & heel-toe is good on-track, & fun-but-impractical on-street.

Engine-braking, imo, is bad in both circumstances. Brakes are meant to slow you down, & the engine is meant to make you go...using it to slow you down puts undue wear/tear on the entire drive-line. It's much cheaper to replace brake pads & rotors than to get work done on your engine/trans.

Xtian_Dubber said:

I'd agree that rev-matching should be as natural on-street as it is on-track, & heel-toe is good on-track, & fun-but-impractical on-street.

Engine-braking, imo, is bad in both circumstances. Brakes are meant to slow you down, & the engine is meant to make you go...using it to slow you down puts undue wear/tear on the entire drive-line. It's much cheaper to replace brake pads & rotors than to get work done on your engine/trans.

Click to expand...

engine braking is NOT bad. lets say you're going down hill, but you don't want to speed up what do you do? you take your foot completely off the gas not step on the brakes

^ Thanks for your input. You're right...I guess I got my symantics confused...lifting off the throttle to slow down isn't bad. Don't mind me

ghostwind said:

Rev matching, absolutely, but heel-toe is pretty silly and unnecessary on the street. It's important on the track where you are braking very hard and downshifting/rev-matching at the same time, but on the street you never brake that hard. No need, and in fact you may end up doing it badly, which in turn will hurt you on track. Why? Because unless you are deep/hard on the brake pedal (which again is not on the street, unless you are driving like a hooligan, and not even then), you will learn to heel-toe with the brake pedal a bit higher than you'd do it on track. This in time will create an incorrect technique when you do get on the track r.e. pedal positions. I've seen it too many times to count. I know people think it's kind of cool and racy for the street, but really no need IMHO.

Click to expand...

I disagree with you on this. I use a combination of all the techniques(aside from double clutching, which truly is unnecessary on a car with functional synchros) in most driving situations as necessary. I don't feel rev matching under light braking has hurt my heel-toe technique at all. If anything it teaches you to be smooth and maintain even braking pressure while you pivot your foot to blip the throttle.

Aside from excessive engine braking none of these techniques will adversely effect your car and it's simple logic that the more you do something the better you get at it. The second gear synchro was shot on my old '74 BMW 2002tii so I had to learn to double clutch that downshift. After a few weeks of daily driving like that it became second nature and I actually had to think about NOT double clutching into second when I first moved into the GTI.

lol whats with all these driving manual threads on the mk6 forums.

Heel toe is not silly on the street. You don't need to slam on your brakes to do it smoothly. If you can't do it gently on the streets you most likely won't be able to do it smoothly on the track.

Xtian_Dubber said:

I'd agree that rev-matching should be as natural on-street as it is on-track, & heel-toe is good on-track, & fun-but-impractical on-street.

Engine-braking, imo, is bad in both circumstances. Brakes are meant to slow you down, & the engine is meant to make you go...using it to slow you down puts undue wear/tear on the entire drive-line. It's much cheaper to replace brake pads & rotors than to get work done on your engine/trans.

Click to expand...

Where do you get this information? Maybe you should just drive an automatic because thats how they work. Gas = forward/go, brake= slow down. I can always tell when I'm behind an automatic because of how much their brake lights are on which is constantly. I live in a really hilly area and I go down a really steep hill, very narrow street, every morning (speed limit 15mph) in 1st, slowly. Don't have to use the brakes much and my tac stays around 3k. Everyone else in their automatics just fly down the freaking hill riding their brakes the whole time and it sounds like they are in nuetral. Low gear does not exist to these people. But thats for another thread.

People have utilized engine braking in MT cars since their invention. I want documented evidence and proof that engine braking lessens engine life. Obviously, excessive engine braking, like going down a 5 mile steep 65% grade in too low a gear, engine braking with your tac at 4-5k for an extended period of time is hard on the engine, but other wise, engine braking is like 50% of the joy of driving a manual and is harmless. That is how you drive a manual around town. Part of the awesomeness of stick is that your brakes last way longer than in a slushy. I've done this for like 15 years and have never replaced a clutch in my life. Have put well over 100k on cars this way and my brakes last forever.. So to you sir, I say, Malarky! Hogwash! Falderal! Rubbish!:fighting0030:

PS: OP, rev matching rules. Use it. Live it. It will save your clutch. It is not 'useless or unnecessary' in modern MTs w/syncros. You can literally feel the damage you are doing when you just force a downshift without revmatching. Silly, silly advice.

McQueen77 said:

I can always tell when I'm behind an automatic.... Low gear does not exist to these people.

Click to expand...

P is for parking. D is for driving. N means neutral but I don't know what it's for. Then there's all these extra ones I've never used OD,3,2,1????

walker said:

P is for parking. D is for driving. N means neutral but I don't know what it's for. Then there's all these extra ones I've never used OD,3,2,1????

Click to expand...

3,2,1 are the lower gears. for example if you're driving up a steep hill and you feel the car is sluggish.. drop it into 2 or 1 ( 2nd or 1st gear) and you'll have more power. I think that's how it works.

Trolled.

Reviving from the dead....

Do you guys double clutch? Do you brake before you double clutch/downshift?

I'm so damn slow at this (at least I feel like it takes longer than I want).

double clutch is pointless on GTI

Correction: double clutch is pointless on any synchromesh gearbox