GOLFMK8
GOLFMK7
GOLFMK6
GOLFMKV

Carbon cleaning and injectors at the same time?

parm1

Passed Driver's Ed
I've got a 2013 GTI, 74000km (50000 miles). Went Uni stage 1 six weeks ago. Late November when the weather dipped in the Toronto area, I started getting a rough cold-start idle, and soon after that P0302 codes every few days. The local German shop thinks it's a leaking injector in cylinder 2 and suggests to replace all the injectors and do a carbon cleaning at the same time. We replaced plugs today with 4x NGK PFR7S8EG and the cold-start idle issue hasn't changed. The misfiring goes away once the car is suitably warmed up, so it's not constant.

My daily commute is 9 km (6 miles) at slow speeds, and it's only now that I've come to understand these engines need the Italian tuneup quite often to help stave off the inevitable carbon buildup. At 50k miles, given my daily commute, I'm very likely due for a carbon cleaning and will arrange to get that done ASAP.

What I'm unsure of is the recommendation to replace all four injectors while the manifold is off for the cleaning. I'm loathe to spend an extra $380 CAD ($230 USD) on new injectors if the cold start issues are likely to be directly attributable to carbon build-up rather than injector failure.

Thoughts?

On the one hand, it makes sense to replace the injectors while the intake is off; on the other hand, it seems like expensive maintenance if they're unable to prove that a given injector is leaking. A recommendation I read recently was to put the car into accessory mode with the fuel rail detached, and when the fuel system gets pressurized, a leak in one of the injectors will reveal itself. The shop claims they can't do that sort of test.

I could always replace just the cylinder 2 injector, but would you spend an additional $230 USD to replace the other three injectors as preventative maintenance?
 

parm1

Passed Driver's Ed
Did you check coils?

Yeah, I installed R8 coils when I went stage 1. I forgot to ask the shop if they swapped the coils on cylinders 2 and 4 when they replaced the spark plugs. I suppose I'll see in the next few days if the misfire moves from 2 to 4.
 

Blakcard

Autocross Newbie
Are you able to swap the coils yourself? In the cold might be rough to get a grip however if you're able to swap them give it shot and see if the code returns.

Kinda agree that you're probably due for a carbon clean... not sure why the shop couldn't test the injector the same time but they may not be equipped which again would seem odd. They can replace the injector but not test it

Whats the name of the shop?
 

Phur

Autocross Champion
Zip ties make it easier to get the coils off. I didn’t have any trouble with mine though. I think I heard the tip from humble mechanic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

gtimk6spd

Ready to race!
I've got a 2013 GTI, 74000km (50000 miles). Went Uni stage 1 six weeks ago. Late November when the weather dipped in the Toronto area, I started getting a rough cold-start idle, and soon after that P0302 codes every few days. The local German shop thinks it's a leaking injector in cylinder 2 and suggests to replace all the injectors and do a carbon cleaning at the same time. We replaced plugs today with 4x NGK PFR7S8EG and the cold-start idle issue hasn't changed. The misfiring goes away once the car is suitably warmed up, so it's not constant.

My daily commute is 9 km (6 miles) at slow speeds, and it's only now that I've come to understand these engines need the Italian tuneup quite often to help stave off the inevitable carbon buildup. At 50k miles, given my daily commute, I'm very likely due for a carbon cleaning and will arrange to get that done ASAP.

What I'm unsure of is the recommendation to replace all four injectors while the manifold is off for the cleaning. I'm loathe to spend an extra $380 CAD ($230 USD) on new injectors if the cold start issues are likely to be directly attributable to carbon build-up rather than injector failure.

Thoughts?

On the one hand, it makes sense to replace the injectors while the intake is off; on the other hand, it seems like expensive maintenance if they're unable to prove that a given injector is leaking. A recommendation I read recently was to put the car into accessory mode with the fuel rail detached, and when the fuel system gets pressurized, a leak in one of the injectors will reveal itself. The shop claims they can't do that sort of test.

I could always replace just the cylinder 2 injector, but would you spend an additional $230 USD to replace the other three injectors as preventative maintenance?

I was in a similar situation. 2010 GTI and had the P0302 on and off for most of 2017 (currently at 54xxx miles). After trying plugs, coils, pcv, different gas, etc. I couldn't get rid of it. The cold made things worse like taking longer to fire and semi-rough idle. It came down to bad injectors. I had them replace all 4 just because it saves on potential labor in the future. Of course it snowed once I got my car back so full pulls are not possible. That's where my P0302 usually popped up. The car does start easier, idles smoother, and pulls a lot smoother. No code so far and the car feels extra quick when the odd bit of dry pavement comes up.

My vote is do all 4 injectors while you are in there.

Edit: I also had a carbon cleaning done. Forgot to add that. My valves weren't too bad and it was more of an injector issue, but again it was saving me on labor. I think it was worth it.
 

Boscogn

Go Kart Champion
It's worth a mention that while your carbon cleaning u might as well replace the intake manifold with the revision for just $150 since you're already paying for the labor.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
 

gtimk6spd

Ready to race!
The intake manifold is still under extended warranty though, right? When mine went I got all of the work done for free and a free loaner car from VW.
 

gtimk6spd

Ready to race!
I think only some 2008-2011s have the 120k injector/intake mani warranty

Good call. If the 2013 isn't covered, but still has an older revision intake, this would be the time to replace it for $150 like you stated.
 

parm1

Passed Driver's Ed
Are you able to swap the coils yourself? In the cold might be rough to get a grip however if you're able to swap them give it shot and see if the code returns.

Kinda agree that you're probably due for a carbon clean... not sure why the shop couldn't test the injector the same time but they may not be equipped which again would seem odd. They can replace the injector but not test it

Whats the name of the shop?

I got the code again this afternoon on cylinder 2; I'm going to wait for it to warm up in a few days and I'll swap coils just to be able to rule out a bad coil as a cause.

The shop is Foreign Automotive in Kitchener.
 

parm1

Passed Driver's Ed
So I ended up getting the carbon cleaning done and all injectors replaced about a month ago at Foreign Automotive in Kitchener. The car is back to purring like a kitten, and there seems to be a bit more power, which is a nice little bonus for my still fairly new Uni stage 1.

Here are some before/after pics of a few of the cylinders (I'm guessing the ugly one was my ill-fated cylinder #2):





In hindsight after seeing how bad the cylinders were, I don't think replacing the injectors was necessary. Had I been there to insist on seeing the buildup when they got the intake off, I probably would have called off the injector replacements. I've started doing more Italian tune-ups. :)
 

GreyGti1990

Ready to race!
I'm still wondering when I'll need to do my carbon cleaning... Got the car at 44kish miles and theres 87k miles on it now. Previous owner did replace the intake manifold so I'm guessing he did a carbon cleaning too? I haven't had any issues yet.

I do also commute daily on the highway 66 miles round trip with some higher revs mixed in. Must be helping
 
Top