A reason to consider timing chain replacement also, if you want to update tensioner

I finally got around to taking the plunge on DIYing a timing chain replacement on my 112k mile 09 MK5 2.0TSI (I come here because there's much more TSI info and discussion to be had). 2 years ago I paid someone to swap the tensioner for me but did nothing else, this bought me some time, but for a while after I was getting warm start rattles on hot days and Cam Phase Adjustment Block 93 in VCDS was consistently showing -4.20 to -4.50. I figured this may have had something to do with a stretched timing chain.


When I finally got the cover off you can see how far the tensioner was pushed out. Compare this to the image of my tensioner with a brand new revised chain. Now I laid them out against each other, and the new one was only slightly shorter but also the design of the newest revision chain is different and the links don't "fold" the same way. I'm sure I could have got a string to measure them but didn't.




Also performing a full timing job gave me the opportunity to pull off the cam bridge and inspect the check valve screen. I understand this is more of an issue for the earlier revisions, but I did in fact have the screen blowout which is commonly reported with this engine. I found it stuck in the oil passage and was able to fish it out, and it came apart very easily. I have no idea how long its been like this but the damage could have been catastrophic. There's many horror stories online of people having this little screen cause all sorts of issues after it migrates through oil passages. After getting everything back together I did the car seems to start up smoother and has a bit more "pep" but that might be placebo. Block 93 in VCDS now shows -1.20 degrees.

Wow.. good save man. And great work too doing it on your own. You got to spend some quality time with the innards lol... and the best reward was the satisfaction of you cranking it over when all said and done.

Thanks man! It was definitely my biggest automotive challenge. I did tons of research but I gotta say it was still tough. Getting the chain marks all lined up is really tough with the cams under valve spring tension.

Well done man! You definitely saved yourself from a huge bill.

I had timing chain stretch at 131K miles and my car would stall on throttle tip in...I was -4.9 according to the dealer. I even damaged the sprockets on the variable intake camshaft, which meant my bill was MASSIVE at the dealer.

Glad to see you got the job done BudgetPhoenix! Looks like your car definitely needed it. Enjoy the peace of mind with the new chain. :happyanim:

I don't know about you, but after my timing job I was a huge pansy when it came to the first start! Took a few minutes to work myself up to turning the key knowing I could have just made a $3k+ mistake!

If anyone is interested I have a lot of pictures, links, and info about the timing chain job in my build thread. Check out the link in my signature. Bonus pic of my timing system going back together w/ all new chains, guides, tensioners, and hardware:

Hi Tony! Thanks again for your help and your pics were a great reference. Theres so much more info online for diying timing for this engine now than there was just 1-2 years ago

BudgetPhoenix said:

Hi Tony! Thanks again for your help and your pics were a great reference. Theres so much more info online for diying timing for this engine now than there was just 1-2 years ago

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Agreed, I was able to find some good info that helped me feel confident in tackling this project. Honestly, the service manual is a fantastic resource for this job and should be all you really "need" to get it done. Of course tips, tricks, and pictures are always helpful and I probably wouldn't have done it without them.

Great write up! How early can we see timing chains stretch? I have a 3/13 GTI which should have the updated tensioners, just haven’t had it checked. I’m sitting a little over 35k miles and this shit makes me paranoid.


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hbrown0509 said:

Great write up! How early can we see timing chains stretch? I have a 3/13 GTI which should have the updated tensioners, just haven’t had it checked. I’m sitting a little over 35k miles and this shit makes me paranoid.


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I've seen a local shop recommend replacing chains after 100k if you're going in to the timing system to do anything else. You should have no issues at 35k.

If you're worried about chain stretch you can measure the camshaft phase position at idle (block 093 of engine measuring blocks) using vagcom or OBD11. This number shows how far the camshaft angle is from what the car expects. If this number is out of a certain tolerance (-4 to 4) it is an indication that the camshaft timing chain has stretched or jumped a tooth.

Good luck.

Tony48 said:

I've seen a local shop recommend replacing chains after 100k if you're going in to the timing system to do anything else. You should have no issues at 35k.

If you're worried about chain stretch you can measure the camshaft phase position at idle (block 093 of engine measuring blocks) using vagcom or OBD11. This number shows how far the camshaft angle is from what the car expects. If this number is out of a certain tolerance (-4 to 4) it is an indication that the camshaft timing chain has stretched or jumped a tooth.

Good luck.

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Thanks! Will do this [emoji1303]


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I've got mine booked in for the tensioner update and new chain next week. Block 93 says -3.83, so makes sense to change the upper chain as well.

But what about the lower (balance shaft?) chain? Seems like if they're going to be in there, it makes sense to replace everything now. Or is stretch on the lower chain not an issue like it is on the upper?

Been searching, but info on the lower chain is hard to find. And when I asked the shop, they told me the engine "only has one long chain" so that wasn't exactly confidence inspiring, but I'm hoping it was just a miscommunication between the tech and the service advisor I was speaking with.

AM407 said:

I've got mine booked in for the tensioner update and new chain next week. Block 93 says -3.83, so makes sense to change the upper chain as well.

But what about the lower (balance shaft?) chain? Seems like if they're going to be in there, it makes sense to replace everything now. Or is stretch on the lower chain not an issue like it is on the upper?

Been searching, but info on the lower chain is hard to find. And when I asked the shop, they told me the engine "only has one long chain" so that wasn't exactly confidence inspiring, but I'm hoping it was just a miscommunication between the tech and the service advisor I was speaking with.

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The camshaft chain is the one that causes the catastrophic issues (bent valves/engine destruction) and is thus the one that is most frequently talked about. My personal recommendation is to also replace the balance shaft chain while you're there. It's a cheap part (especially when compared to the cost of the whole timing system job) and is minimally more labor once you have the timing system opened up.

In summary, replace the balance shaft chain for the peace of mind. No one's complaining about balance shaft chain failure yet but who knows what will happen in the future. Get it replaced while it's cheap to do so.

One last note, I know for sure the camshaft chain was revised to a newer, heavier-duty design. While I didn't compare my new balance shaft chain to my old chain I assume that it was also revised to the new design. Either way, it can't hurt to replace the balance shaft chain. Pic below of old (left) and new (right) version cam chain. Notice the doubled up links.

IMG_20171225_151821 by Tony G, on Flickr

hmmm....six across vs 5.. could be sturdier version.. thanks for showing.

Tony48 said:

The camshaft chain is the one that causes the catastrophic issues (bent valves/engine destruction) and is thus the one that is most frequently talked about. My personal recommendation is to also replace the balance shaft chain while you're there. It's a cheap part (especially when compared to the cost of the whole timing system job) and is minimally more labor once you have the timing system opened up.

In summary, replace the balance shaft chain for the peace of mind. No one's complaining about balance shaft chain failure yet but who knows what will happen in the future. Get it replaced while it's cheap to do so.

One last note, I know for sure the camshaft chain was revised to a newer, heavier-duty design. While I didn't compare my new balance shaft chain to my old chain I assume that it was also revised to the new design. Either way, it can't hurt to replace the balance shaft chain. Pic below of old (left) and new (right) version cam chain. Notice the doubled up links.

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Thanks for that, very helpful!

Yeah, that was my thinking as well - just replace everything while it's all apart rather than risking having to go back in later. I plan on keeping the car for the long haul, so may as well take care of everything now.

I'll have to follow up with the shop and give them explicit instructions just to do the whole thing. They were talking more about "we'll have a look once we get it apart," but I'd rather just get it all done now.

And while we're on the subject, what's the deal with the cam bridge? I know there's the screen that can come loose, but has that part been updated as well? Do people replace the cam bridge as a matter of course, or just check for the missing screen and decide from there? And anything else? I can see this getting pricey...

AM407 said:

Thanks for that, very helpful!

Yeah, that was my thinking as well - just replace everything while it's all apart rather than risking having to go back in later. I plan on keeping the car for the long haul, so may as well take care of everything now.

I'll have to follow up with the shop and give them explicit instructions just to do the whole thing. They were talking more about "we'll have a look once we get it apart," but I'd rather just get it all done now.

And while we're on the subject, what's the deal with the cam bridge? I know there's the screen that can come loose, but has that part been updated as well? Do people replace the cam bridge as a matter of course, or just check for the missing screen and decide from there? And anything else? I can see this getting pricey...

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No updated part for the cam bridge. Have the shop check the screen to see if it's blown out. If it has been blown out they should see if they can find the pieces lodged in the oil passages and remove them. There's no issue running the cam bridge without the screen so just reinstall (rather than spending $250 on an OEM cam bridge that has the same problem and will blow out again).

My cam bridge screen was in tact (shown below) so I left it and reinstalled as-is.

Excelerate Performance has a good web page with pictures of the timing chain system and a blown out screen on a cam bridge.

IMG_20171224_163545 by Tony G, on Flickr