GOLFMK8
GOLFMK7
GOLFMK6
GOLFMKV

Switched back to OEM gear oil from Redline MTL

MrFancypants

Autocross Champion
A couple of years ago I made the mistake of test driving a Civic Si and walked away jealous of the amazing stock shifter. I didn’t much like the rest of the car, so I installed a Dieselgeek Sigma 6, metal cable bracket, metal bracket bushings, and a Raceseng Slammer. Before all the upgrades I drained the gearbox and refilled with MTL.

Improved, and nice to use when just driving around, but it still didn’t feel quite right when trying to shift quickly.

Last week I noted that the gearbox felt like it had loosened up quite a bit while the outside ambient temperature was over 100 degrees. After some reading it turns out that MTL is on the heavy side relative to OEM, which doesn’t specify the viscosity.

Great, gonna switch back to OEM.... what’s the part number? Turns out nobody actually knows. I went with G 052 527 A2, however....G 052 171 A2 could also be right, and to make it more confusing there are a number of other G 052 oils available.

I’m a bit surprised at the difference. The most obvious difference is noise, my car makes so much less noise now it’s hard to believe it’s the same car. MTL caused that much noise from the gearbox even with the dual mass flywheel, I can’t imagine what it must sound like to have a single mass flywheel with the same fluid.

Shifting is massively improved as well, it no longer feels like I’m going to break anything when I flick through the gears quickly.

It was expensive, but it’s so much better I can no longer recommend anything else.
 

jay745

What Would Glenn Danzig Do
For smoothness and drivability hands down OEM is the best. I generally ask what they are doing with the car and make a recommendation off that. Mtl along with some of the other popular fluids like liquimoly, motul etc do handle heat a little better so for racing applications those would be better.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

MrFancypants

Autocross Champion
For smoothness and drivability hands down OEM is the best. I generally ask what they are doing with the car and make a recommendation off that. Mtl along with some of the other popular fluids like liquimoly, motul etc do handle heat a little better so for racing applications those would be better.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

True... on a hot track in the middle of summer the thicker fluids may work fine or even better, and it’s a lot less expensive. But being in south Texas I can’t see the benefit otherwise.
 

Tony48

Go Kart Champion
In January I made the switch from Motul Gear 300 75w90 to OEM G 052 527 A2. I was also unclear about which OEM fluid to use (G 052 527 A2 vs. G 052 171 A2).

I noticed a huge improvement. Less notchy during extreme hot/cold, I didn't have to force the car into 1st/reverse when the gearbox was cold, Much easier/quicker/better feeling shifting, etc. One thing I noticed is that the OEM fluid is basically the same viscosity as motor oil whereas the Motul was really thick (as you would expect with 75w90 oil). It seems our gear boxes need OEM fluid which is unfortunate since it is quite expensive. I paid ~$60 for the Motul and ~$120 for the OEM trans fluid.

Overall well worth the switch despite the price, for every day driving.
 
Last edited:

MrFancypants

Autocross Champion
In January I made the switch from Motul Gear 300 75w90 to OEM G 052 527 A2. I was also unclear about which OEM fluid to use (G 052 527 A2 vs. G 052 171 A2).

I noticed a huge improvement. Less notchy during extreme hot/cold, I didn't have to force the car into 1st/reverse when the gearbox was cold, Much easier/quicker/better feeling shifting, etc. One thing I noticed is that the OEM fluid is basically the same viscosity as motor oil whereas the Motul was really thick (as you would expect with 75w90 oil). It seems our gear boxes need OEM fluid which is unfortunate since it is quite expensive. I paid ~$60 for the Motul and ~$120 for the OEM trans fluid.

Overall well worth the switch despite the price, for every day driving.

I thought my first gear engagement issue was because I'm lazy and needed to adjust the cables. I probably still should, but now first gear isn't giving me any lip.

What I wonder is if it's that there's some magic in the OEM bottle or if it's simply that these gearboxes (modern syncromesh units in general, perhaps) really want a low viscosity oil that most of the name brand aftermarket companies aren't offering.

I've spent quite a number of hours researching at this point and the most useful information seems to be on TDIClub's forums, where they've taken a surprising interest in what gear oils they use.

It's a shame that the OEM oil is so expensive, but you can definitely put me on the "worth it" side of the conversation.
 

Tony48

Go Kart Champion
I thought my first gear engagement issue was because I'm lazy and needed to adjust the cables. I probably still should, but now first gear isn't giving me any lip.

What I wonder is if it's that there's some magic in the OEM bottle or if it's simply that these gearboxes (modern syncromesh units in general, perhaps) really want a low viscosity oil that most of the name brand aftermarket companies aren't offering.

I've spent quite a number of hours researching at this point and the most useful information seems to be on TDIClub's forums, where they've taken a surprising interest in what gear oils they use.

It's a shame that the OEM oil is so expensive, but you can definitely put me on the "worth it" side of the conversation.
I assume the difference in shifter feel between OEM and aftermarket gear box oil is mostly due to the lower viscosity; that assumption is based solely on the fact that the viscosity is the the most obvious (and massive) difference.

Regarding the price of OEM gearbox oil...I searched and searched without any luck trying to find out who the OEM is for VW gearbox oil so I could purchase direct and cut out the mark-up. I'm sure someone out there knows so it would be great if they could drop some knowledge and save us some money :D
 
Last edited:

Rolling_GTI

Ready to race!
I found the opposite to be true. Hated the shifter with OEM fluid, love it with MTL. In really cold areas, the OEM is like molasses. Couldn't even put it into a gear when under -20F
 

kthor7031

Go Kart Champion
I've been using the 171 for the whole life. At about 105k now. It's technically the OE fill. 527 came later. Not sure the difference.
 

PhthaloType

Go Kart Champion
In a few days I'm gonna change out original OEM (82k miles) for Mobil 1. Now y'all've got me freaked out that it's gonna be a downgrade.


Oh well, I'll let you know...
 

MrFancypants

Autocross Champion
I've been using the 171 for the whole life. At about 105k now. It's technically the OE fill. 527 came later. Not sure the difference.

I’m not even sure VW knows the difference. There are so many different varieties of G052 it’s difficult to track down what’s for what. But at least we have a good idea that 171 was probably the factory fill. Not sure when or why 527 came along but we know it works well, even if it’s pricey.

In a few days I'm gonna change out original OEM (82k miles) for Mobil 1. Now y'all've got me freaked out that it's gonna be a downgrade.


Oh well, I'll let you know...

Don’t sweat it. I sincerely doubt there’s anything to freak out about and I’m sure it’ll perform fine with no risk to your gearbox. When I had all the stock shifter parts the MTL didn’t feel dramatically different. But after all the upgrades the notchiness became a bit much. Removing all the slop probably magnified what the thicker stuff was doing to synchro engagement so the thin OEM fluid is easier to appreciate.
 

MLue1

Drag Racing Champion
I assume the difference in shifter feel between OEM and aftermarket gear box oil is mostly due to the lower viscosity; that assumption is based solely on the fact that the viscosity is the the most obvious (and massive) difference....
With manual transmission oils its a combination of viscosity and friction modifiers. I agree OE is the way to go but in extreme cases the manufacturer can also get it wrong.

My Time Attack car was an Acura RSX Type S, I was supported by a Acura Dealer they changed the manual transmission on the car twice but in the end we were using another manufacturers gear oil with friction modifiers.

... Regarding the price of OEM gearbox oil...I searched and searched without any luck trying to find out who the OEM is for VW gearbox oil so I could purchase direct and cut out the mark-up. I'm sure someone out there knows so it would be great if they could drop some knowledge and save us some money :D
Fuchs make alot of the fluids used by VW. The two gear Oils that you are discussing are both made by Fuchs.
https://www.fuchs.com/fileadmin/sch...ochures_EN/Argumenter_EN/VW_Argumenter_EN.pdf


Cheers
 

zrickety

The Fixer
Been running Mobil 1 gear oil (75w-90?) for a long time, got almost 160k on the old GTI that my friend is driving. Would highly recommend as an alternative to oem.
 

PhthaloType

Go Kart Champion
In a few days I'm gonna change out original OEM (82k miles) for Mobil 1. Now y'all've got me freaked out that it's gonna be a downgrade.


Oh well, I'll let you know...


Follow-up: My fears were confirmed, Mobil 1 was a mistake. Shifting is harder overall, 10x moreso when it's cold (motor and/or ambient). On cold mornings I pretty much have to force it into 2nd for the first few blocks of my commute.


I bought Fuchs Titan Sintofluid FE SAE 75W and I'm gonna put that in this weekend. From what I've read it should be pretty close to OEM, and seems to be well reviewed by owners of Euro cars that like very thin gear oil.


Again, I'll let you know...
 

PhthaloType

Go Kart Champion
Again, I'll let you know...


Put the Fuchs in today and just got back from a short test drive. Shifting was much easier with the cold fluid (temp was in the 40s). Didn't feel like I had to force it like with Mobil 1. There's still a little too much "notchiness" for my taste, but I don't think that's related to fluid, but rather a) the 2nd gear synchro, or b) I just need to do another shift cable adjustment (I adjusted the cables after my clutch was replaced, but I don't think I managed to get it spot-on since it's never felt as smooth as before).
 
Last edited:

Fyodor Dostoevsky

Ready to race!
A couple of years ago I made the mistake of test driving a Civic Si and walked away jealous of the amazing stock shifter.

My previous car was a 1993 Civic Si, and the shifts on that car were much smoother than with my current 2013 GTI.

In fact until recently I thought that there was something wrong with the GTI transmission, like maybe the previous owner had abused it. (I am the second owner and the previous owner had it on a lease.)

But just in the past few months I began to realize that the shifting significantly improves after driving for a long period of time. I don't drive the car very often and in the winter it can take up to an hour of driving before it shifts well, so it took me three years to realize what was happening. Apparently it takes a long time for the oil to get up to operating temperature especially when the outside temperature is cold. Until then the oil is off the design viscosity for the synchros. But when the transmission finally does get hot it does shift quite nicely, although I would still say my old Civic Si shifted better.

The problem is definitely an issue in the winter, but in the summer I believe there are also shifting problems when the transmission is cold. But I can't recall with certainty since it has only been a few months that I have been paying attention to how temperature is related to this problem.

Last month we had some days at -25C or so, and man was the transmission stiff! When I first started the car, just moving the shifter was noticeably stiffer. And the synchros ... forget it, they didn't work at all for the first 15 mins of driving or so.

I believe I had some shifting problems with my Civic in cold weather also, but it wasn't nearly as bad as with my GTI, so it isn't something that I can recall clearly.

I am wondering if there is a solution. Perhaps there is a different OEM oil than the factory fill that VW would support using in this transmission. I am reluctant to use anything other than OEM oil since I don't want to second guess the VW engineers.

Finally, I'll digress into a small diatribe. This shifting issue is one of a handful of disappointments that I've had with my GTI, and VW in general. I like driving, so the poor shifting (when the transmission is cold) is a detraction from the driving experience. I also have an appreciation for good engineering, and I easily sour to things that aren't engineered well. So, I'm really not impressed by VW and for my next car I'll probably go back to a Japanese make (Would really like to drive Mazda's Skyactive-X engine!). I blame all the problems with my GTI on Winterkorn. Apparently he ran VW like a dictator, and I think the engineers just said f-it and pushed out products that weren't properly engineered. He quit a week after the dieselgate scandal broke too. That f-in weasel should be in prison!
 
Top