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Old 12-27-2016, 08:52 PM   #1
TSI_mr.niceguy
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APR STGII V2.4 vs. V2.1 Review/ Comparison

Hi guys,

I finally got the latest APR stage 2 file for my GTI (V2.4), and given that for me it has been significantly different from V2.1, I figured a full review/ discussion was in order. I know the issues with V2.1 are fairly well documented, so I'm going to ask that we refrain from too much talk about it - my goal is just to mention the problems it had as a point of reference to the new tune. I'll be breaking this into 2 parts:

1.) Problems with V2.1

2.) What is improved/ not improved with V2.4

Car is a 2012 GTI (EA888.1), tune, full exhaust, and intake.

Problems with APR Stage II V2.1

a.) Cold starts were very rough, and the idle was ridiculously high. Instead of going to around 1200 RPM, hearing the SAI run, then it shuts off and revs drop (normal), the revs hit 2000, the car would shudder and it sounded like I was starting a Group B rally car. I have a very loud exhaust setup, so needless to say, the neighbors definitely hated me.

b.) Idle fluctuations were happening all the time. IF the revs ever actually dropped to idle, they'd bounce around, up and down a few hundred RPM, and it just generally did not feel smooth. Even when it actually sat at idle according to the tachometer, I could feel the engine lobbing up and down maybe 50 RPM, and it was super annoying - anyone with upgraded mounts surely would be able to feel it.

c.) Rev hang was ridiculous. Like stock x6. When I let off the gas, the revs would sit there like it was nobody's busines, sometimes even going UP a hundred RPM. If you revved in neutral, it would, I kid you not, take between 15 and 20 seconds to reach idle, after randomly pausing or barely dropping through various RPM ranges (5000-4000 would drop fast, then 4000-3500 would be incredibly slow, etc). Then it would drop to 1200 and just sit there, and after FINALLY dropping to 750, the needle would bounce around or jump back up to 1000. This was my biggest gripe with the file by far. The rev hang would have had you think this thing had a 50 pound flywheel and a throttle plate operated via carrier pigeon message.

d.) Throttle response was very, very poor, and the car felt like a sluggish slush box below 4000 RPM. No real other way to describe it... Partial throttle had nothing to give. Zero.

e.) Throttle lift-off was very slow to respond. If I was at WOT, and let off the throttle between 3-5000 RPM (while keeping the car in gear), the car would keep the throttle plate open and it would continue accelerating for about 300 RPM. This scared me the first time it happened! But it sounded weird, and letting off the gas resulted in a moment of continued acceleration before the car registered that I lifted off the accelerator. Bizarre sensation and exhaust tone when this happened.

APR Stage II V2.4 - Improvements

a.) Cold starts: will comment on this tomorrow after the car sits overnight.

b.) Idle fluctuations are gone completely, car idles perfectly now. Smooth and clean.

c.) Rev hang is back to normal levels!!!!! Car drops to idle normally, revs drop when I change gear normally, and just generally response better to neutral situations. Revs do not increase by themselves anymore.

d.) Throttle response is hugely improved. Car feels much more responsive down low. Huge increase in low end torque and it comes as soon as you hit the go pedal, no more waiting and waiting. Car just feels like it wants to GO!!!

e.) Throttle lift-off is completely normal again. Car does not continue to accelerate on its own when I let off the throttle in gear. Weird exhaust noise is gone.

Overall:

This file is a HUGE improvement. Every issue with V2.1 that I experienced is gone. The car feels much more responsive, torquey and generally smooth, and there is no more weird engine behavior. I challenge other tuners to make a file that feels this awesome. APR, I'm really impressed. For anyone else who has thoughts on the new file or anything related, let me know what you think/ any questions!

Now running V2.4:

- Stock non-testpipe
- 91 OCT high output/ aftermarket intake (STGII)
- 93 OCT high output/ aftermarket intake (STGII)
- 104 OCT high output/ aftermarket intake (STGII)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilonespaz,
yeah my car drives like a** but atleas its the strongest OTS tune on market, bro.
Quote:
Originally Posted by damagi123,
You should probably just respond with something about you fucking his daughter. He cant undo that with his fancy mustang can he?
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Old 12-28-2016, 09:37 AM   #2
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Old 12-28-2016, 11:53 AM   #3
lilonespaz
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im glad they worked out the kinks.
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listen to your gut....And lilonespaz
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just like god intended. he didnt kill off the dinosaurs for their sweet sweet bone juice to have it go getting wasted by eco-obsessed torque thieves.
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Old 12-28-2016, 12:03 PM   #4
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Sounds like APR got it dialed in just right now.
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Old 12-28-2016, 01:26 PM   #5
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Yeah they nailed it. It is a very good file, just generally feels smoother and "healthier."

I'm most pleased with the bump in torque at partial throttle - I don't have to go WOT to accelerate normally out of a traffic light and keep up with normal traffic anymore.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilonespaz,
yeah my car drives like a** but atleas its the strongest OTS tune on market, bro.
Quote:
Originally Posted by damagi123,
You should probably just respond with something about you fucking his daughter. He cant undo that with his fancy mustang can he?
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Old 12-28-2016, 02:58 PM   #6
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nice. had to delay getting mine. hoping to get it soon.
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Old 12-28-2016, 03:13 PM   #7
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APR STGII V2.4 vs. V2.1 Review/ Comparison

Also noticed a significant boost in torque in the higher gears - took it WOT through 3rd and when I changed to 4th it honestly *felt* about the same. 5th and 6th are vastly improved as well.

The power loss after changing gears seems to have improved significantly also


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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilonespaz,
yeah my car drives like a** but atleas its the strongest OTS tune on market, bro.
Quote:
Originally Posted by damagi123,
You should probably just respond with something about you fucking his daughter. He cant undo that with his fancy mustang can he?
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Old 12-28-2016, 03:41 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSI_mr.niceguy View Post
Yeah they nailed it. It is a very good file, just generally feels smoother and "healthier."

I'm most pleased with the bump in torque at partial throttle - I don't have to go WOT to accelerate normally out of a traffic light and keep up with normal traffic anymore.


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I'm still experiencing some "delay" in power in the lower gears and really have to go past 3k RPM just to keep up with traffic after a full stop. It's better than before but it's still there, at least in my case. But it could be due to my clutch being stock and @ 90k
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Old 12-28-2016, 04:23 PM   #9
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APR STGII V2.4 vs. V2.1 Review/ Comparison

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mlody91 View Post
I'm still experiencing some "delay" in power in the lower gears and really have to go past 3k RPM just to keep up with traffic after a full stop. It's better than before but it's still there, at least in my case. But it could be due to my clutch being stock and @ 90k


What mods are you running? do you live in a very hot climate? There are a lot of factors.

Clutch is definitely a possibility, but you're more likely to notice clutch slip in 3rd gear or higher... If the car feels sluggish in 1st and 2nd I would guess that something else is going on. Tunes don't always work the same on every application, I'd talk to APR for sure.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilonespaz,
yeah my car drives like a** but atleas its the strongest OTS tune on market, bro.
Quote:
Originally Posted by damagi123,
You should probably just respond with something about you fucking his daughter. He cant undo that with his fancy mustang can he?
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Old 12-28-2016, 11:29 PM   #10
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Clutch slip is getting worse... Curse your extra torque APR!


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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilonespaz,
yeah my car drives like a** but atleas its the strongest OTS tune on market, bro.
Quote:
Originally Posted by damagi123,
You should probably just respond with something about you fucking his daughter. He cant undo that with his fancy mustang can he?
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Old 12-29-2016, 03:13 PM   #11
Mlody91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSI_mr.niceguy View Post
What mods are you running? do you live in a very hot climate? There are a lot of factors.

Clutch is definitely a possibility, but you're more likely to notice clutch slip in 3rd gear or higher... If the car feels sluggish in 1st and 2nd I would guess that something else is going on. Tunes don't always work the same on every application, I'd talk to APR for sure.


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Just an SPM turboback exhaust, Unitronic Intake, APR intercooler & GFB DV+ valve (a bit of a Frankenstein project). I have the fluidampr pulley as well but I'm hoping to have that installed when I have my timing chain/tensioner service done in the spring.

I live in the Metro-Detroit area so definitely not hot this time of year

I just did the carbon cleaning service myself two days ago and off the line starts have definitely improved since then. Still have to go past 3k RPM to keep up with traffic but it seems to be not as sluggish as before.

As of now though it's only a slight nuisance as highway driving is just superb and the rough cold starts have been eliminated. I can live with the lower gear sluggishness thanks to all the other perks you've mentioned in this thread. Danke schön APR

TLDR; Still sluggish off the line but everything else about the new update makes up for it.
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Old 12-29-2016, 04:22 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mlody91 View Post
Just an SPM turboback exhaust, Unitronic Intake, APR intercooler & GFB DV+ valve (a bit of a Frankenstein project). I have the fluidampr pulley as well but I'm hoping to have that installed when I have my timing chain/tensioner service done in the spring.

I live in the Metro-Detroit area so definitely not hot this time of year

I just did the carbon cleaning service myself two days ago and off the line starts have definitely improved since then. Still have to go past 3k RPM to keep up with traffic but it seems to be not as sluggish as before.

As of now though it's only a slight nuisance as highway driving is just superb and the rough cold starts have been eliminated. I can live with the lower gear sluggishness thanks to all the other perks you've mentioned in this thread. Danke schön APR

TLDR; Still sluggish off the line but everything else about the new update makes up for it.
There is something wrong, none of the gears should feel sluggish after reading all of the reviews about it. Is it possible you have a big boost leak or something? Do you have a boost gauge?
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Old 12-29-2016, 05:17 PM   #13
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Had version 2.4 burned on my Stage 1 GTI today. Wow. Night and day. The smile I had when I was first tuned back in 2011 is back. APR nailed it with this tune. Boy am I going to go through tires! Got to start saving for a clutch.
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Old 12-29-2016, 05:20 PM   #14
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There is something wrong, none of the gears should feel sluggish after reading all of the reviews about it. Is it possible you have a big boost leak or something? Do you have a boost gauge?


I have a p3 gauge which in 4th gear showed me reaching up to 20-21 PSI. Boost leak is possible but I'm not sure how I would go about finding it, let alone knowing the symptoms that I have one.


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