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Old 10-28-2012, 07:36 PM   #29
CFG9000
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Originally Posted by Stigar View Post
Agree with above statement I've had a passat dsg and it was fun....but I like my manual better even in rush hour traffic it doesn't bother me to much maybe bc I'm used to it. IMO dsg is actually better performance wise until k04, example my friend has a Vw cc apr stage3+ dsg and I'm k04 manual and I can keep up with him pretty good bc he hasn't flashed and rebuilt his dsg to make it capable of holding that power. Shop told him to completely redo tranny to make it worth it was about $8,000. For me it's &2,000 you get the picture???
Somebody's lying to you, because the DSG doesn't need to be built for stage 3.
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:30 PM   #30
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Doesn't stage 3 go well past the TQ limits of the DSG?
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:40 PM   #31
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Doesn't stage 3 go well past the TQ limits of the DSG?
The DQ250's software torque limits are 350nm/260ft-lbf. That said, there is someone on the Vortex forums with a twin turbo Mk5 R32 pushing 600hp...the transmission has been very abused in that car, and no signs of failure or slipping, even after they tore it down to inspect the clutches.
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:47 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by socal87 View Post
The DQ250's software torque limits are 350nm/260ft-lbf. That said, there is someone on the Vortex forums with a twin turbo Mk5 R32 pushing 600hp...the transmission has been very abused in that car, and no signs of failure or slipping, even after they tore it down to inspect the clutches.
That's not what I asked. I don't care about the HP numbers. I asked about the TQ limit. HP is not TQ. There's a reason VW limited the DSG to 260ft/lbs.
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:54 PM   #33
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I personally hate driving an auto. When I was at the vw dealership they kept trying to get me to test drive a dsg. I declined lol! Now after owning my car I kind of wanna see what all the fuss is about. I drove my brother's 5 series bmw, not sure it was duel clutch or not, but I still hated it. DSG is faster tho, but there is nothing like driving a dumped manual car over speed bumps
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:04 PM   #34
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After driving a manual for 10 yrs, it was a no brainer going w DSG . Comparison of real world difference... http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X4HpD5K6Qws

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Old 10-28-2012, 10:31 PM   #35
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I went with manual because I'm young and am proud to say that I learned how to drive stick. It helps to keep me focused and aware when driving. And it's definitely alot of fun. If I'm still into VWs after I age a bit (which will probably be the case), I will try the DSG. But right now, living in the suburbs at my age.... having a manual seemed like the right choice for me.
This! I learned how to drive a manual when I was 16 and I'm proud of it. And I'm a better driver without all the distractions behind the wheel because both my hands are occupied. But ultimately it's all about what you need.
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:49 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by quality_sound View Post
That's not what I asked. I don't care about the HP numbers. I asked about the TQ limit. HP is not TQ. There's a reason VW limited the DSG to 260ft/lbs.
Alright, fine, I'll do the math for you. I don't remember WHERE in the RPM range his motor was making nearly 600 horsepower, but let's assume it's close to redline, where most engines have their horsepower peak...6300 RPM in the case of the 3.2l VR6.

Horsepower and torque are exactly the same at 5252 RPM, therefore:

Torque = 5252 times horsepower divided by RPM

5252 * 600 / 6300 = Roughly 500 ft-lbf of torque at 6300 RPM. Also, consider the fact that his car is AWD, putting much higher stresses on the transmission than a FWD car.

Now, this isn't to say that you can pump 500 pound-feet of torque through any DSG and expect it to hold up, but there are many, MANY TSI/TFSI owners out there with K04 or bigger turbos and a DSG transmission who have had no issues with the DSG...TSI K04 can exceed 400lb-ft on 100 octane.

Hope that answers your question, your snotty response notwithstanding.
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:11 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by CFG9000 View Post
Somebody's lying to you, because the DSG doesn't need to be built for stage 3.
My k04 manual is right on his @$$ until higher speeds with his stage 3+ gt30 turbo. He gets such a huge lag bc he doesn't have the flash yet and the 8k rebuild is for higher gearing and all new upgraded internal for dsg. No lies just our experience with it. He still pulls hard on me but he says it feels like the dsg is holding him back some at that power level and we are both speed hungry...lol
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:15 AM   #38
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I don't understand this. You can get more performance (read: results) out of a DSG over a manual. Also, you bring up the maintenance costs of the DSG...but if you plan on tuning the vehicle...you have to buy a better clutch for the manual. Something you do not need to do with a DSG.

edit: I'm not against manual. My next car will most likely be manual. But that because the DSG has jaded me. It is an amazing transmission. I just want to be engaged a little more.
There is still the dsg flash and apparently higher gearing to be done if needed but not required. IMO and ime which is limited the stage 3+ dsg need to be updated but not required if you don't want to. However you will get a better and more perfromance from doing these things. I'm manual all the way but dsg is for sure a bad@$$ automic transmission...
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:22 AM   #39
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Having it to do all over again, i prob would have gotten dsg even though i love driving a standard. It is a one trick pony and theres only one way to drive it. It feels silly sometimes, always with the left foot right hand routine day in and day out, day after day after day having no other options. Theres a reason its cheaper. Im stuck with the car a long time but the next car will lack the third pedal. Ive done my time
I knew you'd been having some second thoughts, but damn, never thought I'd hear you say those words.

To OP: I enjoy driving the DSG in my GTI, but only because I've got a second manual car I can drive. If I could only have one car, it'd have a third pedal. Then again I've driven manual all my life, so the feel of a good manual transmission is like home cooking for me.
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Old 10-29-2012, 08:29 AM   #40
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Well, I had seen a few others on here already, but I figured I could include other stuff about why I am deciding now rather than just choosing between the two transmissions .

I'm a freshman in college, so I will have the car for a good while! I am not worried about being older and not wanting to have to shift. To be honest, I have never owned a manual car. I've driven 2 of them, and it felt as though I may get annoyed with constantly having to shift. Also, DSG just seemed really cool

On the other hand, I am more than likely going to modify the car a little in the future (Blow off valve, cold air intake, exhaust) and I didn't know if the DSG type transmission would be effective with these kinds of modifications.
You have some serious research to do before dropping over $20k of your and/or your parent's money. Read/search all about this stuff and try out both cars, get what YOU like, not what people on the internet think you should get.

I have manual, I love it, I have never regretted it in the slightest. I've driven DSG, it's cool. It's just not as fun TO ME as a manual. I'm just not a fan of automatic transmissions.
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Old 10-29-2012, 08:50 AM   #41
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You're found a nice GTI for $20k with the DSG? Go for it. It's a blast to drive and gets good gas mileage. Since you've never driven a stick why worry. And frankly the DSG gives you the benefit of manual shifting ( with the paddles if you like) or fully auto when you want it.
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Old 10-29-2012, 11:39 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by socal87 View Post
Alright, fine, I'll do the math for you. I don't remember WHERE in the RPM range his motor was making nearly 600 horsepower, but let's assume it's close to redline, where most engines have their horsepower peak...6300 RPM in the case of the 3.2l VR6.

Horsepower and torque are exactly the same at 5252 RPM, therefore:

Torque = 5252 times horsepower divided by RPM

5252 * 600 / 6300 = Roughly 500 ft-lbf of torque at 6300 RPM. Also, consider the fact that his car is AWD, putting much higher stresses on the transmission than a FWD car.

Now, this isn't to say that you can pump 500 pound-feet of torque through any DSG and expect it to hold up, but there are many, MANY TSI/TFSI owners out there with K04 or bigger turbos and a DSG transmission who have had no issues with the DSG...TSI K04 can exceed 400lb-ft on 100 octane.

Hope that answers your question, your snotty response notwithstanding.

It wasn't snotty, it was straight-forward. I'm not going to sugar-coat a half-assed reply to a question I've posed. I asked a question. You replied with a non-answer. I said it didn't answer my question and explained WHY it didn't answer my question. I'm sorry if it hurt your feelings.

Now, with your answer in hand, how often will the transmission actually see 500 lb/ft? How far into the rev range will it be over the OEM limit? I think looking at that will explain why his "500ft-lb" engine hasn't grenaded his transmission yet. Also, how he drives will play a major role. I don't think a blanket claim of "it'll hold X over the OEM rating" can be ascertained with a peak number at the top of the rev range.
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