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Old 07-04-2010, 04:09 AM   #15
msm00b
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Shit, I hate to quote specs, but sometimes you just gotta cut through the bullshit. Here goes:

335i
Unladen 3560 (3582) lbs
Engine: Liter/type/valves per cylinder TwinPower Turbo 3.0/inline 6/4
Nominal output hp/rpm 300/5800
Max. torque lb-ft/rpm 300/1200-5000
Acceleration 0-60 mph (5.5) sec

135i
Unladen weight3373 (3439) lbs
Engine: Liter/type/valves per cylinder TwinPower Turbo 3.0/inline 6/4
Nominal output @ 300hp @ 5800 hp
Maximum torque @ 300 @ 1200-5000 lb-ft
Acceleration 0-60 mph: (5.1) sec 7-SPEED Double Clutch

Stage 1 GTI with intake 0-62mph 5.6sec per APRs numbers
Stage 2 GTI with intake/downpipe 0-60? It's difficult to say as there are no published numbers, but the extra 15-20hp, torque, and wider power band put some estimates I've researched handily btw 5-5.4 with a decent set of tires.

Quote:
I had 335i too. i know.. i raced with my friend's stage 2 mk6 before the lease return on my 335i. and it was a easy win...
If it was an "easy win" then your friend sucks at driving. Will the beemer win by I hair? I wouldn't be surprised ... but it'll ultimately be a drivers race. A stage 2 GTI will have more torque than the 335. It's lighter (3200lbs) than the 335 and 135, and will be pushing similar hp output (~280 range at stage 2 on 93 octane with an intake and downpipe). Point is, it shouldn't have been an easy win. Period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by r.c.y.k. View Post
so it could be a good race between 135i and stage 3 GTi..
Stage 3 GTI with a decent set of tires would destroy a stock 135i. It would destroy the 335i stock as well. Take a look at the following:



Honestly what it boils down to is RWD vs FWD. Any FWD vehicle will end up hitting a brick wall due to traction issues in the first 2 gears. With as much torque as a tuned GTI puts out (on a FWD car) ... getting power to the ground from a standstill is tricky. Honestly, though, the moral of the story is who gives a shit about 0-60s. Unless you're an immature adolescent dragging at every other red light, it means nothing.

Passing power, torque, and "usable power" in daily driving and/or around the track are what matter. Once you get past 2nd gear and your wheels aren't spinning, I'd wager that the stage 2 GTI has the pwr/weight ratio to snarf the heavier beemer handily and keep up neck and neck with the lighter beemer (135i) just fine. The pwr/weight ratio on a Stage III kitted GTI is simply insane.
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Old 07-04-2010, 10:05 AM   #16
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Here is unbiased as you can get directly from a BMW forum (below) from May of this year. Stage 2 beat a 335 w intake from a broad range of mph 60-120.

************************************************** ****************

05-14-2010, 05:38 AM #1
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iTrader: (3) 335i vs GTI SHOULD I BE DISAPOINTED

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Ran a GTI on the freeway from 60-120

335i
aFe intake
6spd manual


GTI
Intake
BOV
Straight Pipe
3"inch downpipes
Stage 2 chip

at 120 i was behind half a fender!

-___- is this normal?



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05-14-2010, 05:42 AM #2
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iTrader: (0) Sounds like that's about right. There might have been some other undisclosed mods.



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05-14-2010, 07:52 AM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STICKY335
Ran a GTI on the freeway from 60-120

335i
aFe intake
6spd manual


GTI
Intake
BOV
Straight Pipe
3"inch downpipes
Stage 2 chip

at 120 i was behind half a fender!

-___- is this normal?

At least a 400lbs advantage, some 30hp less than your car stock but most probably more torque can surprise anybody... if the GTI driver is better than you then it is a done deal.
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Old 07-04-2010, 04:26 PM   #17
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Yeah Elanor, that's honestly what I expected. From zero the RWD vehicles will have the slight advantage. In all other scenarios (including performance and in the turns), a well planted stage 2 GTI will have the advantage.

So what does that mean? A 24k GTI + 2k in upgrades > a 36-46k base price vehicle. The beemers are nice. I would honestly consider a 40k 135i fully tweaked out over a GTI when my kids are a bit older and my career has fully taken off. For now, my GTI is really damn nice inside and out ... and after I get around to buying a downpipe I'll be a little bit faster than the stock 135i in 99% of daily driving.

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Old 07-05-2010, 12:44 AM   #18
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msm00b, I am sorry if you think that i am BSing.. I had 335i and now I have a GTi, I love both of them, so I don't have to make up stories. I don't know where your specs come from for the bmws, you should search around for real 0-62' test results.. they always range from 4.9-5.1s.. 135i is even faster than that, with the new single turbo DCT it has 0-62 at around 4.6s, the old twin turbo 6speed was around 4.7s. So Stage 3 is faster than that? I am not too sure about that, if it does run faster than 4.7s, I am sorry, I made a mistake.
Then from my own experience, after 120 the 335i would pull away even faster... we have also tried 60-120, it was a really close match, I would say it was deal to the gear ratio, 335i has a really long 3rd gear... which 335i could lose if the driver makes any mistake for a 60-120 run.
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Old 07-05-2010, 01:38 AM   #19
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Dude, your post is so full of holes it's not even funny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by r.c.y.k. View Post
I don't know where your specs come from for the bmws, you should search around for real 0-62' test results..
http://www.bmwusa.com/

Quote:
they always range from 4.9-5.1s..
Sorry, I think I'll trust BMWs numbers over the ones you magically pull out of your bunghole.

Quote:
So Stage 3 is faster than that? I am not too sure about that, if it does run faster than 4.7s, I am sorry, I made a mistake.
First of all, the beemers do not run a 4.7 stock. Show me a non-AWD car that weighs 3500+ lbs and can pull a 4.7 0-60 on a measly 300hp. There's a huge difference btw the 5.1 that BMW quotes for the 135i and a 4.7. You're talking nearly a half second difference in a range that's already considered pretty fucking fast.

Quote:
Then from my own experience, after 120 the 335i would pull away even faster...
Since stock 135i/335i are limited to 130 stock, absolutely not. Remember you're comparing a stock BMW with a reasonably heavily modified GTI. My stage 1 will go faster than the stock beemer.

A stage2 GTIs max speed will not only be higher, but have more highend pull thanks to a lack of onboard limiters.
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Old 07-05-2010, 02:46 AM   #20
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Ya, whatever, if you like to think this way that's up to you. I am not here to defance 335/135, I am just trying to state the facts.. if you think a stage 1 would go faster than any 335/135, you will be shocked when you race one.

335i with sport package has speed limited at 150mph, which mine was with sport package. You can also disable the speed limiter easily by turning off the traction control.

Anyway, maybe all these tests below are just BS too... or I magically pull out from my bunghole.. or all these test drivers really can drive that much better than BMW drivers... or they just test it differently...

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...oupe-road_test
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t_drive_review
http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/car/2007-bmw-335i
http://www.roadandtrack.com/content/...135i_chart.pdf
http://www.performancecarnews.com/index.asp
http://www.insideline.com/bmw/3-seri...35i-coupe.html
http://www.insideline.com/bmw/1-seri...35i-coupe.html

maybe you should post in this thread too with your magically fast stage 1...
http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6459

one last thing, 135i doesn't weight 3500+.. it is <3400

Last edited by r.c.y.k.; 07-05-2010 at 03:15 AM.
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Old 07-05-2010, 03:13 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r.c.y.k. View Post
if you think a stage 1 would go faster than any 335/135, you will be shocked when you race one.
Compared to the stock beemer:

A stage 1 GTI will not accelerate faster. It will GO FASTER because it's not governed. From a rolling/road start, a stage 2 GTI will not only go faster, it will also accelerate faster. A stage 3 GTI would laugh it's way to the bank.

Quote:
335i with sport package has speed limited at 150mph, which mine was with sport package
Given enough road a stage 1 GTI can hit 160.

Quote:
You can also disable the speed limiter easily by turning off the traction control.
That's the most idiotic statement I've seen here in a while. Please google what "traction control" does. It most certainly does not turn off the onboard speed limiter.

Quote:
Anyway, maybe all these tests
Maybe you've been so terribly wrong on a point by point basis that your "points" aren't trustworthy. Or maybe I just trust the makers of the car more. Since speed sells, I'd hardly expect the makers of the car to undersell their product. CarNDriver has long been known to have BMWs cock lodged so deeply in its throat that I hardly consider them to be a reputable source ... especially when their reports conflict with BMWs numbers in the manner they do.

Quote:
one last thing, 135i doesn't weight 3500+.. it is <3400
One more thing you've proven yourself wrong on ... again ... surprise surprise.

135i
Unladen weight (3439) lbs
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Old 07-05-2010, 03:54 AM   #22
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I can't even find 0-60 times for the 135 on bmwusa.com...... I don't see anything for the 335 either.

Honestly I'm defending the GTI's fun per dollar, but with car and driver testing the BMW at 4.7 seconds to 60 stock and the GTI at 6.9 it feels ridiculous to even think that a stage 2 GTI could pull away from even a stock 135i. I don't know that sounds awfully unrealistic... I mean the GTI is what? 500 lbs lighter with a 3 door and 6MT (optimistically) 135 has a 100 hp advantage... I think with stage 2 it would have to be a good driver in the GTI and a poor one in the 135. And I think even with stage 3... it wouldn't be a decimating victory....

msm00b you're just kind of being a dick. He quoted more than just C&D and owned a 335i (very similar car in terms of power and even weight). I really think you are being unrealistic. And just remember with 2-4k worth of work to the BMW it can widen the gap again just as easily......
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:38 AM   #23
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Thankyou DvS21, finally someone being realistic... agree with you too on GTI's fun per dollar does win over 135/335. Actually less than $600 with the 135/335, it can be chipped and gain another 80hp already, which I don't see stage 3 GTi would even get close to it...

anyway msm00b, it is fun to argue with you here, it really made my night,, lol...
maybe i was wrong about the traction control thing because I read it on e90post.com, which i never tried myself. 150mph is more than enough for me anyway... probably i am not the only idiot tho
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48600
I should have tried it before i returned my car, sorry, my bad...

good luck going 160mph with given enough road <--- for me the most idiotic idea ever! lol how long of a given road do you want? LOL

straight from bmwusa,
Weight in kg Curb weight, man/auto 1,530/1,560
maybe you are looking at auto? i am looking at manu?


anyway, clearly you trust the car maker's stat, while I trust the real test result. Seriously tho, race one if you have chance, then you would know that I am not BSing...

Last edited by r.c.y.k.; 07-05-2010 at 04:45 AM.
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Old 07-05-2010, 11:50 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DvS21 View Post
I can't even find 0-60 times for the 135 on bmwusa.com...... I don't see anything for the 335 either.
Select either vehicles from the drop-down, choose features and specs. From this screen select the "Specifications" tab across the near-top. Scroll down and voila.

Quote:
and the GTI at 6.9
6.9 seconds? Rofl. This is why I don't trust Car and Driver father than I can piss.

MotorTrend:
Our 0-60 best, achieved fingering through our test car's DSG transmission gears, was a satisfying 5.8 seconds. But, gads, in our last roundup of such pocket-rocketry, a Subaru WRX planted a staggering 4.8 seconds to 60; a previous-gen Mazdaspeed3 took 5.5 Mississippis.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...est/index.html

Quote:
it feels ridiculous to even think that a stage 2 GTI could pull away from even a stock 135i
So, granting that the GTI isn't actually 6.9 seconds to 60, you mean to tell me that taking the power-output from 200hp with 200lbs/torque to 280hp with 315llbs/torque in a relatively light car won't make a huge difference? Given that this car is indeed quite a bit lighter

The dottted line in this picture is stock. The solid line is stage 1.



The top solid lines in this picture represent stage 2 with intake/downpipe.



Now compare the dotted lines from the first picture to the solid lines in the second. Those two vehicles will perform very very differently.

Quote:
I mean the GTI is what? 500 lbs lighter with a 3 door and 6MT (optimistically) 135 has a 100 hp advantage...
Umm, comparing a stage 2 GTI to the stock 135i, the beemer has a 20hp advantage and RWD. The GTI has 200-500lb advantage and 15lbs of torque. The vehicles at that point really aren't that different. The only thing that would really put the beemer ahead is starting from a dead stop vs a a rolling start.

Quote:
And just remember with 2-4k worth of work to the BMW it can widen the gap again just as easily......
A 36k-40k car with a turbocharged 6 cylinder and 2k-4k in mods will go faster than a 24k with 2k in mods?



The statement was made that (and I paraphrase here) that the stock beemer will easily beat a stage 2 GTI, and that it would take stage 3 to "maybe keep up". That simply is not true.

Quote:
msm00b you're just kind of being a dick.
Yes I am.

Quote:
Originally Posted by r.c.y.k. View Post
Actually less than $600 with the 135/335, it can be chipped and gain another 80hp already, which I don't see stage 3 GTi would even get close to it...
A stage 3 GTI is just a hair under 380hp. Granted the beemers I'd wager will hotfoot it faster, but this was never about which car can be faster, it was about calling out a fool making foolish, unrealistic claims.

Quote:
anyway msm00b, it is fun to argue with you here, it really made my night,, lol...
Can you really call it arguing? More like having a fight with a one arm'd retarded midget.

Quote:
maybe i was wrong about the traction control thing
I'd like to quote myself here: "Can you really call it arguing? More like having a fight with a one arm'd retarded midget."

Quote:
good luck going 160mph with given enough road <--- for me the most idiotic idea ever! lol how long of a given road do you want? LOL:w00t
And 150 is that different from 160? Congratulations on missing the point. You said it would "go faster". You were wrong. As for how much road it would need ... probably less road than either a stock 135/335.


Quote:
straight from bmwusa,
Weight in kg Curb weight, man/auto 1,530/1,560
maybe you are looking at auto? i am looking at manu?
If you're talking manual instead of their automatic transmission, you also have to take a hefty chunk off the 0-60 times ... which makes the beemers that much slower.

Damn that took too long. I'll leave you with this:



Damn it feels good to be a gangsta.
Bling bling muthafucka.
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Old 07-05-2010, 12:12 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msm00b View Post
Dude, your post is so full of holes it's not even funny.



http://www.bmwusa.com/



Sorry, I think I'll trust BMWs numbers over the ones you magically pull out of your bunghole.



First of all, the beemers do not run a 4.7 stock. Show me a non-AWD car that weighs 3500+ lbs and can pull a 4.7 0-60 on a measly 300hp. There's a huge difference btw the 5.1 that BMW quotes for the 135i and a 4.7. You're talking nearly a half second difference in a range that's already considered pretty fucking fast.



Since stock 135i/335i are limited to 130 stock, absolutely not. Remember you're comparing a stock BMW with a reasonably heavily modified GTI. My stage 1 will go faster than the stock beemer.

A stage2 GTIs max speed will not only be higher, but have more highend pull thanks to a lack of onboard limiters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by msm00b View Post
Compared to the stock beemer:

A stage 1 GTI will not accelerate faster. It will GO FASTER because it's not governed. From a rolling/road start, a stage 2 GTI will not only go faster, it will also accelerate faster. A stage 3 GTI would laugh it's way to the bank.



Given enough road a stage 1 GTI can hit 160.



That's the most idiotic statement I've seen here in a while. Please google what "traction control" does. It most certainly does not turn off the onboard speed limiter.



Maybe you've been so terribly wrong on a point by point basis that your "points" aren't trustworthy. Or maybe I just trust the makers of the car more. Since speed sells, I'd hardly expect the makers of the car to undersell their product. CarNDriver has long been known to have BMWs cock lodged so deeply in its throat that I hardly consider them to be a reputable source ... especially when their reports conflict with BMWs numbers in the manner they do.



One more thing you've proven yourself wrong on ... again ... surprise surprise.

135i
Unladen weight (3439) lbs
^One of the most misinformed guy ever and sounds like a total douchebag .

The GTI is a great bang for the buck vehicle, but a stage 1 or stage 2 is not faster or even on equal grounds as a stock 335.

It seems like you are the one who has a bunch of holes in your posts and one that is dumb enough to believe BMW's 0-60 times on the 335. If you actually took the time to research rather than grab the numbers from BMW's website, you would come to realize that BMW is known to underrate their times and their engine output. Why? Because they don't want to take sales away from the M3.

Go drive a 335 instead of believing everything BMW says. There are tons of cars out there that come underrated from factory (B8 S4 comes straight to mind). If you do some research (read e90post.com, motortrend/caranddriver/edmunds/etc, or even googling "BMW 335 underrated") you'll easily find out that a stock 335 is underrated and should be around 350hp and can easily do 4.7-4.9 sec from 0-60. And no, I'm not going to find the articles for you, go look yourself it shouldn't take long.

msm00b = fail

-edit- btw is Bimmer not Beemer.. Beemers are BMW motorcycles
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Old 07-05-2010, 12:34 PM   #26
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A+ thread...will read again!
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Old 07-05-2010, 01:24 PM   #27
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Shits and giggles. I raced a friend with a stage 2+ apr and i was stock and he left me by more than 10 car lengths.... said he would keep up with porsche-non turboed... going up to 165mph... anyways! lol
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Old 07-05-2010, 01:31 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Joker GTI View Post
Shits and giggles. I raced a friend with a stage 2+ apr and i was stock and he left me by more than 10 car lengths.... said he would keep up with porsche-non turboed... going up to 165mph... anyways! lol
what car did you have?


Also msm00b, I was comparing stock for stock on the weight/hp. Just quit man, you're making yourself look like an ass.
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