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Old 07-05-2010, 02:08 PM   #29
msm00b
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Originally Posted by DvS21 View Post
Also msm00b, I was comparing stock for stock on the weight/hp. Just quit man, you're making yourself look like an ass.
Why on earth would you compare a stock for stock given the discussion we're having. Nobody is debating that the BMWs would wipe the floor with a stock GTI. It's completely and utterly irrelevant to the conversation at hand.
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Old 07-05-2010, 02:24 PM   #30
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It was to give a base line. To compare the power addition of stage 2. Look, if you can't read just stop posting man... you're still being an idiot.
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Old 07-05-2010, 02:29 PM   #31
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It was to give a base line. To compare the power addition of stage 2. Look, if you can't read just stop posting man... you're still being an idiot.
If your goal was to give a base line, you failed with ambiguity. What purpose did it serve for the discussion.

20hp

vs

a couple hundred pounds less
more torque
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Old 07-05-2010, 02:37 PM   #32
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It was to give a base line. To compare the power addition of stage 2. Look, if you can't read just stop posting man... you're still being an idiot.
Well, that's exactly it! If you haven't noticed yet, I like to sit on this forum all day (instead of actually driving my car, or learning how to work on my car) and pick fights with people about things that, to be honest, don't really matter. Even if they weren't trying to argue in the first place, but instead were just commenting on their experience, I do my best to start the fight. When I am clearly loosing the fight, my best tacting to to redirect the arguement to a different question that I KNOW I will win. I try to never actually contribute to this community. Instead I like to just rehash and repeat this that I've heard in the past. I mean really. Who would spend hours on the internet trying to PROVE something to someone about a topic that is DEBATABLE? Me. That's who. Who spends hours on this forum fighting with anyone who says that any other car might be better that my beloved GTI. I do! I claim to be a "professional," yet I enjoy disrespecting other people on internet forums, when I really should be spending my time getting better at my job. I am a complete douchebag. I know. But doing all of these things above helps be feel better about having such a small penis and an ugly wife.

Oh. And no matter how shitty my arguements are, I've found that you can always win by ending the post with a completely irrelevant picture that attempts to insult the original poster:

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Old 07-05-2010, 03:02 PM   #33
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rofl ... msmOOb. For those who can't win arguments legitly. You forgot to make my "ATI Crew" bold. Unfortunately, you just lost the moral high ground you once held. Not only are you wrong, you're now also a dick. Welcome to the club.

You know what I diagnose people who get butthurt over intrawebs disrespect? Sandy vagina syndrome.
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Old 07-05-2010, 03:13 PM   #34
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Lol too funny. I'm done here haha.
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Old 07-05-2010, 03:28 PM   #35
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msm00b has resorted to posting bullshit (not that he wasn't before), but I guess after taking a few minutes and reading up on more info he realized he was the one that was consistently wrong and now has nothing to say after he tried to appear as if his words were facts. Never seen someone fail so bad.
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Old 07-05-2010, 03:40 PM   #36
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Other than being abrasive, there hasn't been a lick of dishonesty in any of my posts. Go back and re-read them.
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:46 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by msm00b View Post
Other than being abrasive, there hasn't been a lick of dishonesty in any of my posts <----FALSE. Go back and re-read them.
Sure. This will be fun.

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Originally Posted by msm00b View Post
335i
Nominal output hp/rpm 300/5800 <----FALSE
Max. torque lb-ft/rpm 300/1200-5000 <----FALSE
Acceleration 0-60 mph (5.5) sec <----FALSE


If it was an "easy win" then your friend sucks at driving. Will the beemer win by I hair? I wouldn't be surprised ... but it'll ultimately be a drivers race <----FALSE. A stage 2 GTI will have more torque than the 335 <----FALSE. It's lighter (3200lbs) than the 335 and 135, and will be pushing similar hp output (~280 range at stage 2 on 93 octane with an intake and downpipe) <----FALSE. Point is, it shouldn't have been an easy win. Period. <----FALSE
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Yeah Elanor, that's honestly what I expected. From zero the RWD vehicles will have the slight advantage. In all other scenarios (including performance and in the turns), a well planted stage 2 GTI will have the advantage<----FALSE.

So what does that mean? A 24k GTI + 2k in upgrades > a 36-46k base price vehicle<----FALSE.
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Originally Posted by msm00b View Post

First of all, the beemers do not run a 4.7 stock <----FALSE. Show me a non-AWD car that weighs 3500+ lbs and can pull a 4.7 0-60 on a measly 300hp <----FALSE. There's a huge difference btw the 5.1 that BMW quotes for the 135i and a 4.7. You're talking nearly a half second difference in a range that's already considered pretty fucking fast.
Since stock 135i/335i are limited to 130 stock, absolutely not. Remember you're comparing a stock BMW with a reasonably heavily modified GTI. My stage 1 will go faster than the stock beemer<----FALSE .
Quote:
Originally Posted by msm00b View Post
Compared to the stock beemer:

A stage 1 GTI will not accelerate faster. It will GO FASTER because it's not governed. From a rolling/road start, a stage 2 GTI will not only go faster, it will also accelerate faster<----FALSE. A stage 3 GTI would laugh it's way to the bank.
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Originally Posted by msm00b View Post
Umm, comparing a stage 2 GTI to the stock 135i, the beemer has a 20hp advantage <----FALSE and RWD. The GTI has 200-500lb advantage and 15lbs of torque<----FALSE. The vehicles at that point really aren't that different<----FALSE. The only thing that would really put the beemer ahead is starting from a dead stop vs a a rolling start.<----FALSE


The statement was made that (and I paraphrase here) that the stock beemer will easily beat a stage 2 GTI, and that it would take stage 3 to "maybe keep up". That simply is not true.<----FALSE


If you're talking manual instead of their automatic transmission, you also have to take a hefty chunk off the 0-60 times<----FALSE ... which makes the beemers that much slower.

Damn it feels good to be a gangsta.<----FALSE
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Originally Posted by msm00b View Post
20hp <----FALSE

vs

a couple hundred pounds less
more torque
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Old 07-05-2010, 07:23 PM   #38
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msm00b, you just seriously don't know anything about bimmer... the 335i auto has a larger final gear, which make it accelerates closer to the manu 335i... it is not that much slower. plus, seems like you are really living in your magical stage 1 dream... go try a 335i, then you would stop BSing..
135i stock vs stage 3 GTi is a close race, face it!
chipped 135i vs stage 3 GTi is not even a race..
maybe i should find an e90 member in ur area to have a race with you? so that you would wake up?
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Old 07-05-2010, 07:48 PM   #39
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Alright, let's play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kg810 View Post
335i
Nominal output hp/rpm 300/5800 <----FALSE
Max. torque lb-ft/rpm 300/1200-5000 <----FALSE
Acceleration 0-60 mph (5.5) sec <----FALSE

Those numbers come directly off BMWs website



A stage 2 GTI will have more torque than the 335 <----FALSE.

Stage 2 GTI has 314lbs torque. You're welcome to reference the above specs per the manufacturers.

My stage 1 will go faster than the stock beemer<----FALSE .

A stock beemer is limited to 130/150. A stage one GTI is not limited by anything other than the engine, and you can push it upwards of 160. It will "go faster". Stage one will not "get there" faster.

From a rolling/road start, a stage 2 GTI will not only go faster, it will also accelerate faster<----FALSE.

Once you take launch and traction out of the picture, sure it will.

Umm, comparing a stage 2 GTI to the stock 135i, the beemer has a 20hp advantage <----FALSE and RWD.

Pardon me, a 24hp advantage. 276 vs 300.

The GTI has 200-500lb advantage and 15lbs of torque <----FALSE.

Pardon me, 14lbs torque. 300 vs 314.

If you're talking manual instead of their automatic transmission, you also have to take a hefty chunk off the 0-60 times <----FALSE

Time and time again it's been shown that the computer and duel clutch transmission is faster. DSG vs stickshift anyone?
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Old 07-05-2010, 08:05 PM   #40
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msm00b, i start to love you... you are just too funny.. lol
if you take launch and traction out of the picture, sure 135i would still accelerate faster than a stage2... maybe not go faster if you really love to race up to 160, and have a long enough given road... but then by that time... the 135i would have slow down for a long time. 135i would have reached the top speed of 150mph way before you could got up to there. it is more like i slow down, then you run pass me, what's the point?
I do agree, DSG faster than manu, then manu is faster traditional auto. However, the 4.6s 135i has DSG too... and for 335i/135i with auto is not that much slower than manu...
seriously, you just haven't experience the 135/335...

one question, is Apr dyno graph showing whp?
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Old 07-05-2010, 08:15 PM   #41
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as far as I know it's hp at the wheel not crank
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Old 07-06-2010, 01:58 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msm00b View Post
Alright, let's play.
Did you not read my first post on page 2?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kg810 View Post

It seems like you are the one who has a bunch of holes in your posts and one that is dumb enough to believe BMW's 0-60 times on the 335. If you actually took the time to research rather than grab the numbers from BMW's website, you would come to realize that BMW is known to underrate their times and their engine output. Why? Because they don't want to take sales away from the M3.

Go drive a 335 instead of believing everything BMW says. There are tons of cars out there that come underrated from factory (B8 S4 comes straight to mind). If you do some research (read e90post.com, motortrend/caranddriver/edmunds/etc, or even googling "BMW 335 underrated") you'll easily find out that a stock 335 is underrated and should be around 350hp and can easily do 4.7-4.9 sec from 0-60. And no, I'm not going to find the articles for you, go look yourself it shouldn't take long.

msm00b = fail
I'll take the time to address the ones you decided to address, but I'll also take the time to address the other ones I labelled as false.

Quote:
Originally Posted by msm00b View Post
335i
Nominal output hp/rpm 300/5800 <----FALSE
Max. torque lb-ft/rpm 300/1200-5000 <----FALSE
Acceleration 0-60 mph (5.5) sec <----FALSE

Those numbers come directly off BMWs website


A stage 2 GTI will have more torque than the 335 <----FALSE.

Stage 2 GTI has 314lbs torque. You're welcome to reference the above specs per the manufacturers.
Why would you take the numbers off BMW's website when I've already stated that they underrate their specs. It's the same reason why we know that the GTI doesn't do 7.1 sec (manual) and 6.9 sec (dsg) which is also VW's own numbers.

If you don't believe me and you are clearly too lazy to go and read up since you're afraid of finding out that you're wrong, then click these few links and do a quick skim.

Autoblog report on B8 S4 being underrated which also takes note of the 335 being underrated. Do a quick skim to the mid section of the report.
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/28/r...is-underrated/

Blog that has a baseline dyno of a stock 335 back in 2007
http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-b...-is-underrated

Edmunds report back in 2006 which does a full dyno and analysis(man looking back at this initial report on the 335 tells me just how behind you are and how misinformed you are)
http://www.insideline.com/bmw/3-seri...35i-coupe.html

If you don't believe those reports then you can click these two baseline dynos




Quote:
Originally Posted by msm00b View Post
My stage 1 will go faster than the stock beemer<----FALSE .

A stock beemer is limited to 130/150. A stage one GTI is not limited by anything other than the engine, and you can push it upwards of 160. It will "go faster". Stage one will not "get there" faster.
I see. I misunderstood you the first time and thought you'd "get there" faster.


Quote:
Originally Posted by msm00b View Post
From a rolling/road start, a stage 2 GTI will not only go faster, it will also accelerate faster<----FALSE.

Once you take launch and traction out of the picture, sure it will.
Sigh. Just no. You are only theorycrafting this since you don't have first hand experience coupled with the fact that you are convincing yourself that the 335 does 0-60 in 5.3/5.5 seconds. Hopefully you actually took the time to read above and realize that you were wrong and BMW has underrated it's HP/TQ output and 0-60 times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by msm00b View Post
Umm, comparing a stage 2 GTI to the stock 135i, the beemer has a 20hp advantage <----FALSE and RWD.

Pardon me, a 24hp advantage. 276 vs 300.

The GTI has 200-500lb advantage and 15lbs of torque <----FALSE.

Pardon me, 14lbs torque. 300 vs 314.
Sorry, wrong again.

335 actually puts down closer to 350hp, so, pardon me, it's a 74hp advantage.

Again, wrong. The 335 will actually be the one with the advantage - 350 vs 314. 36lbs torque advantage.

So let's see - 74hp + 36lbs tq advantage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by msm00b View Post
If you're talking manual instead of their automatic transmission, you also have to take a hefty chunk off the 0-60 times <----FALSE

Time and time again it's been shown that the computer and duel clutch transmission is faster. DSG vs stickshift anyone?
Again, if you did any research other than browsing the BMW website, you'd understand that the difference is not hefty(.1 sec difference).

It's "DUAL" as in two, not "DUEL" as in a fight. Why are you bringing up this point? You aren't comparing a GTI Manual to GTI DSG here buddy. You can also get the DCT (dual clutch transmission) in the 135i and 335is these days or have had it since late 2008 in EU.


For the other false statements I called you out on, which you decided to leave out. I'll address these to prove a point and make it clear that you need to do more research on any subject before you start preaching your "facts."

Quote:
Originally Posted by msm00b View Post
but it'll ultimately be a drivers race <----FALSE.
So wrong the first time around, even moreso now that I've posted correct info for you to theorycraft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by msm00b View Post
Point is, it shouldn't have been an easy win. Period. <----FALSE
lol... Yes, it should be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by msm00b View Post
First of all, the beemers do not run a 4.7 stock <----FALSE
Yup, they do. You're wrong. Again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by msm00b View Post
Show me a non-AWD car that weighs 3500+ lbs and can pull a 4.7 0-60 on a measly 300hp <----FALSE
Search e90post.com and youtube.com is your friend.

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