Why no discussion about E85 tunes?

I used to have a turbocharged Suabru, and NASIOC and Legacygt.com have very active E85 proponents.

On the Suby's you essentially upgrade your injectors and fuel pump, develop an open source tune using Romraider, flash it using ECUFlash, and you're off to the races.

Advantages: 105 octane (race gas for regular gas prices), mountains more torque, quicker spool, more power due to increased timing.

Disadvantages: Fuel availibility, poor fuel economy, politics...

Considering the TSI engines already have a HPFP and plenty of injector headroom for the ~30% extra fuel required, how come there is not as much action over here or Vortex with E85? It seems to me like it would be the perfect upgrade for a Stage 1(e) or Stage 2(e) setup, allowing you to have greater performance while still keeping the K03.

With a K04 or more I could see the HPFP and injectors perhaps not being able to keep up.

I have seached on this topic on this site and on Vortex, and there are many people concerned with E85 eating through fuel systems seals, etc... In reality, since our cars are already E10 and E15 certified, there is little risk to E85 causing fuel system degradation. On pre-2006 cars there may be issues with using E85.

Dyno results:

Stage 2 Subaru Legacy GT (downpipe and tune) on 91/93 octane:



Same car on the same dyno with an E85 tune, bigger injectors and Walbro 255 lph fuel pump:



See here for more info:
http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/diy-e85-conversion-91742.html
http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/stage-iie-91492.html

Um, probably because no one has a tune for it.
Subys and Evo's can be tuned much easier than Vee Dubs.

Yeah, that's probably the biggest reason.

With how protective VW is with their software, I don't think it'll happen unless APR/GIAC/etc. get enough feedback from consumers to make it worth their while to even F with it.

As for this:

In reality, since our cars are already E10 and E15 certified, there is little risk to E85 causing fuel system degradation.

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That's not exactly something I'm willing to bet on without further testing. It's quite a leap in demonstratable degradation from a 10%/90% mix of eth/gas to an 85%/15% mix.

These guys have done it for .:R32s; you may be able to talk to them about the possibility for 2.0T cars as well

Ask for Gabe... :thumbsup:

Supposedly the fuel systems aren’t rated for E85. It would most likely cause damage to the stock systems. It could eat through the lines etc.

Also, no one, to date, has given us the choice of higher flowing injectors.

VR6Growl said:

These guys have done it for .:R32s; you may be able to talk to them about the possibility for 2.0T cars as well

Ask for Gabe... :thumbsup:

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Noted...

dbest6808 said:

Supposedly the fuel systems aren’t rated for E85. It would most likely cause damage to the stock systems. It could eat through the lines etc.

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Subaru's are only rated for E10 (not even E15) and in the years of E85 tuning I have not read of one single fuel system failure due to ethanol induced fuel system degradation. I am not saying it has not happened, only that I have yet to see it.

davesxx01 said:

Also, no one, to date, has given us the choice of higher flowing injectors.

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Noted, therefore as stated above I believe that a stock fuel system would only be viable for K03 cars.

VR6Growl said:

These guys have done it for .:R32s; you may be able to talk to them about the possibility for 2.0T cars as well

Ask for Gabe... :thumbsup:

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I spoke with Andrew at BW. He indicated that the complexity of the ECU, combined with a lack of demand was the issue. They have only recently launched their FSI flash, and it may take a while for the TSI.

Deaks2 said:

I spoke with Andrew at BW. He indicated that the complexity of the ECU, combined with a lack of demand was the issue. They have only recently launched their FSI flash, and it may take a while for the TSI.

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Yeah, the TSI is a new motor anyways. I hope there is more options in the future for things like this. The whole Stage I and II gets boring after while. I would love to have a safe E85 option.


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I'd be down to make an extra ~60 whp with a tune and some fuel lines. So long as it's cheaper than a K04 it'd be cost effective for those kinda gains over stage 1...

The only reason is that there is no tune for it...plus there are a very limited number of stations that have ethanol

The gov't is about to end the huge subsidies on ethanol, so it won't be cost effective for much longer. Also, as if a tune didn't already decrease the usable life of your car, the high concentration of ethanol will dissolve every single piece of rubber it comes in contact with.

With a high performance tune and E85 ethanol, I wouldn't see the car going 100,000 miles.

DougDome said:

The gov't is about to end the huge subsidies on ethanol, so it won't be cost effective for much longer. Also, as if a tune didn't already decrease the usable life of your car, the high concentration of ethanol will dissolve every single piece of rubber it comes in contact with.

With a high performance tune and E85 ethanol, I wouldn't see the car going 100,000 miles.

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That's when you rebuild the motor with APR's future stage 4 kit!!!!

e85 is corrosive and you have to flow alot more fuel. I think meth would be a better, cheaper way to go.

mully said:

e85 is corrosive and you have to flow alot more fuel. I think meth would be a better, cheaper way to go.

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And already available.