ChippedGTIs Farewell

Gunkata · Feb 2, 2012

Ryan T. said:
Yeah, I've seen the video.

And I haven't owned an E92 M3, but I've owned an E90 335 and a new 5.0 GT, yes, so I do kind of know what I'm talking about here. I actually sold the 335 for the 5.0, so I'm not trying to disparage my own car, but the Mustang just does not handle like the BMW, whether or not it can make it around a track just as fast is irrelevant for this discussion.

The steering isn't as precise, the brakes aren't as good, and the grip doesn't inspire confidence like in the Bimmer. That being said, the GT is way up on power, and actually does have very high limits for grip, so that probably explains why it's able to keep up.

Maybe you aren't handling it in the right settings? my C6 vette felt like a boat on the streets - it then got to Road America though

(and other tracks in the midwest), and to this day is still my favorite track car I've ever owned. Track and street are two totally different things. Cars can literally transform once you use them on the track but may feel different on the street. A 335 is tuned for the street and lux feel, the Mustang is more geared towards performance and handling.

Ryan T. said:
Of course. I think people's opinion of handling is usually very subjective, isn't it? I have just happened to own a 5.0 and a 3 series, so I'm in a pretty good position to comment I would think.

must be very subjective and differs by person, yes. Since Randy Pobst is a professional racing driver and the vids clearly state the objective performance similiarities, and some subjective thoughts on handling, sure - but any day of the week, the 5.0GT will crush a 335 on a road course.

Dybz said:
my opinion of handling is how it performs on the track... so actual #s. so no, not necessarily subjective. i think the vid pointed out that the M3 also felt a lot better, but actually performed basically the same as the GT.

this^^^^.

C4L · Feb 2, 2012

Dybz said:
that's great... you're not the only one who understands global economics and currency exchange to please stop posting in depth analysis of everything. the GTI still costs >$100k and local salaries are NOT proportionally higher. so, no, it's not all relative. it's because singapore has insanely high import/car taxes in an attempt to limit the number of cars driving around on a tiny island.

Weird, its almost like I said exactly that when I quantified my statement with this one;

"Excise taxes and whatnot may change things a bit but not a lot."

I am aware of these changes but it is still not a direct 1:1 conversion. While $25k may not be comparable to $150k on a direct 1:1 ratio it is certainly not a direct 6:1 ratio either. Some fraction of.

And what is the per capita income of Singapore? Do you know? I do...
Do you even know the per capita income of the US? I do...

Don't be a jerk. I was just illustrating a point that SOME may not have considered.

Dybz · Feb 2, 2012

C4L said:
Weird, its almost like I said exactly that when I quantified my statement with this one;

"Excise taxes and whatnot may change things a bit but not a lot."

I am aware of these changes but it is still not a direct 1:1 conversion. While $25k may not be comparable to $150k on a direct 1:1 ratio it is certainly not a direct 6:1 ratio either. Some fraction of.

And what is the per capita income of Singapore? Do you know? I do...
Do you even know the per capita income of the US? I do...

Don't be a jerk. I was just illustrating a point that SOME may not have considered.

singapore's per capita is only ~20% higher than the US... but they also have a very large economic discrepancy between the classes so that data is extremely skewed.

also "Excise taxes and whatnot may change things a bit but not a lot." is the point i'm arguing. that is the primary item that affects the price of the VWs in singapore, not some economic disparity where the per capita income in singapore is that much higher than elsewhere in the world.

have you talked to anyone from singapore about this? i have...

Gunkata · Feb 2, 2012

he works in finance and knows everything, there is no hope here - I'd just move on.

Ryan T. · Feb 2, 2012

Dybz said:
my opinion of handling is how it performs on the track... so actual #s. so no, not necessarily subjective. i think the vid pointed out that the M3 also felt a lot better, but actually performed basically the same as the GT.

GTFO and quit trying to start shit by putting your thoughts in my mouth. i thought ryan was writing his opinions in such a way that made it sound like hard facts. i disagreed with it, pointed it out, he admitted that it was his opinion, end of discussion.

y u gotta bring yo hate all up in hur dawg?

GunKata said:
Maybe you aren't handling it in the right settings? my C6 vette felt like a boat on the streets - it then got to Road America though (and other tracks in the midwest), and to this day is still my favorite track car I've ever owned. Track and street are two totally different things. Cars can literally transform once you use them on the track but may feel different on the street. A 335 is tuned for the street and lux feel, the Mustang is more geared towards performance and handling.

must be very subjective and differs by person, yes. Since Randy Pobst is a professional racing driver and the vids clearly state the objective performance similiarities, and some subjective thoughts on handling, sure - but any day of the week, the 5.0GT will crush a 335 on a road course.

this^^^^.

Yeah it seems like you guys are talking about overall performance, which I wasn't trying to comment on. Obviously they're very close in that regard. I was referring just to the handling of a car, which IMO can't really be measured, even with things like skidpad numbers and slalom times. Things like steering feel, brake pedal feel, the ability to "point and shoot" (something the GTI is great at) are all going to be driver dependent, and that's all I was saying.

Again, I love love love my 5.0, but it just doesn't feel as precise behind the wheel. It's still fast as balls, but it has a different set of qualities from the 3 series.

Gunkata · Feb 2, 2012

Ryan T. said:
Yeah it seems like you guys are talking about overall performance, which I wasn't trying to comment on. Obviously they're very close in that regard. I was referring just to the handling of a car, which IMO can't really be measured, even with things like skidpad numbers and slalom times. Things like steering feel, brake pedal feel, the ability to "point and shoot" (something the GTI is great at) are all going to be driver dependent, and that's all I was saying.

Again, I love love love my 5.0, but it just doesn't feel as precise behind the wheel. It's still fast as balls, but it has a different set of qualities from the 3 series.

These are performance cars, so they are measured as such.

Skidpad and slalom are "handling" and performance tests.

I do agree on steering feel , brake pedal feel, and "turn-in" as you have described it.

Again, on the street - cars can feel different than on a road course, by a substantial amount. I can see the 3 series feeling more precise and fine tuned on the street - but it ends there.

TommyD · Feb 6, 2012

Dybz said:
singapore's per capita is only ~20% higher than the US... but they also have a very large economic discrepancy between the classes so that data is extremely skewed.

also "Excise taxes and whatnot may change things a bit but not a lot." is the point i'm arguing. that is the primary item that affects the price of the VWs in singapore, not some economic disparity where the per capita income in singapore is that much higher than elsewhere in the world.

have you talked to anyone from singapore about this? i have...

Actually my friend (might be the same guy, Mike) was looking at buying an A1 in Singapore. Normal exchange rate would price it at about 30k-40k. After you get a price you get: Car Msrp + 110% tax + 10yr permit (50-70k). So total cost of purchase is over 100k for a base model car.

http://www.moneysmart.sg/frugal-liv...r-ownership-vs-public-transport-in-singapore/

TommyD · Feb 6, 2012

GunKata said:
he works in finance and knows everything, there is no hope here - I'd just move on.

He is in finance and he lives in Michigan? I hope at least he is in Birmingham..

Dybz · Feb 6, 2012

Dybz said:
that's great... you're not the only one who understands global economics and currency exchange to please stop posting in depth analysis of everything. the GTI still costs >$100k and local salaries are NOT proportionally higher. so, no, it's not all relative. it's because singapore has insanely high import/car taxes in an attempt to limit the number of cars driving around on a tiny island.

TommyD said:
Actually my friend (might be the same guy, Mike) was looking at buying an A1 in Singapore. Normal exchange rate would price it at about 30k-40k. After you get a price you get: Car Msrp + 110% tax + 10yr permit (50-70k). So total cost of purchase is over 100k for a base model car.

http://www.moneysmart.sg/frugal-liv...r-ownership-vs-public-transport-in-singapore/

sorry, i lumped permitting in with taxing car owners in an attempt to limit the number of cars there. my bad for not clarifying that.

TommyD · Feb 6, 2012

I figured, I thought I would break it down a little more to clarify for the kids at home.

ChippedGTIs Farewell

Gunkata

Drag Race Newbie

C4L

Banned

Dybz

Banned

Gunkata

Drag Race Newbie

Ryan T.

Passed Driver's Ed

Gunkata

Drag Race Newbie

TommyD

Ready to race!

TommyD

Ready to race!

Dybz

Banned

TommyD

Ready to race!