What R U Running on your Golf 2.5 - Post your Mod Profile

FlowMK6 said:

Only 19lb, ouch ! This means if I'm applying the ratio of weight added for a rotating unsprung mass which is near 1:7 in general, this means that my extra 23lb per wheel (the exact weight of my wheel is 42lb) feels like an extra 161lb per wheel, that like 4 extra passagers sitting in my car ^^


.... since F = ma


m is a fixed variable on this example, on the 15inch wheel F greater by a very little difference than the 18inch but that's due to the tire used


If we have two rims which their weight is the same thing but their diameter isn't the same, for example, a 195/65R15 and 255/35R18, they have the same diameter of 25", no change in acceleration potential


The difference between the 18inch and the 15 inch, the 18inch have a wider contact point on the ground so a better traction, but lower sidewall (profile) making the ride less comfortable


My conclusion, it's possible to use bigger wheel if it weight the same and have the same rolling radius than the smaller one. Unfortunately, bigger wheel are often heavier than smaller one increasing the inertia and making acceleration a bit slower and affecting handling since it's unsprung mass added to the car, but wider tire allow more traction on the ground

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Flow, keep it simple, you just gave an old guy me, :lol: a head ache and most of the forum members went to sleep. :laugh: We should have a seperate thread for this discussion.

IMHO All things being equal, Wider Tires do not allow more traction on the ground (it is mostly a functioning of the tire compound used), the size of the contact patch is approximately the same for both but the shape of the contact patch changes based on the cross sectional width of the tire/wheel. A skinny tire will have contact patch elongated in the direction of travel (great for accelerating) while a wider tire will have a contact patch not as long in the direction of travel but wider laterally (great for supporting lateral cornering forces).

Drag cars tires are designed to give traction when they spin up the tire diameter increases and the tire gets skinnier, so contact patch is elongated and in the direction of travel to get the best traction. At the drag strip you will see people use slick tires, which can be wide but the tire compound and sticky surface area is what is key.

MLue1 said:

Flow, keep it simple, you just gave an old guy me, :lol: a head ache and most of the forum members went to sleep. :laugh: We should have a seperate thread for this discussion.

IMHO All things being equal, Wider Tires do not allow more traction on the ground (it is mostly a functioning of the tire compound used), the size of the contact patch is approximately the same for both but the shape of the contact patch changes based on the cross sectional width of the tire/wheel. A skinny tire will have contact patch elongated in the direction of travel (great for accelerating) while a wider tire will have a contact patch not as long in the direction of travel but wider laterally (great for supporting lateral cornering forces).

Drag cars tires are designed to give traction when they spin up the tire diameter increases and the tire gets skinnier, so contact patch is elongated and in the direction of travel to get the best traction. At the drag strip you will see people use slick tires, which can be wide but the tire compound and sticky surface area is what is key.

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Agree with you, I didn't elaborate my point of wider tire give better traction. In fact, a bigger contact point on the ground would means less mass distributed at the same point, with a small tire, there would be more mass distributed at the same area which increases the traction since we know that mass help in increasing traction with the ground and that's why smaller tire performs better in snow.

In class, we learned that wider tire have softer rubber and I don't remember the reason, something related to the side wall

Softer rubber have better frictional coefficient allowing more traction

Wider tire have lower profile to keep the same rolling radius, in our case 25", so the sidewall have to be more stiff to support the weight, increasing the stiffness of the sidewall increase handling in corner

Wider tire heat less faster but have a tendency to keep more heat. Since heat make the rubber softer traction is increased

With the following information we now understand why track car and drift car use low profile tire since they give better traction and handling in corner.

You are totally right to say that traction totally depends of the tire compound, tire thread (design) and the ground's friction coefficient

I'm not debating over anything, I just like sharing personal knowledge and learning from others :thumbup:

2010 Golf 2.5 Highline 5MT
57000KM

Stock Leather Interior

RCD330+
Bluetooth Module (disconnected for the RCD330)
Sunroof
GTI Stainless Steel Pedals
Votex Spoiler, needs to be painted and installed

Vland Replica LED Taillights
DeautoLED H7RC Bulbs

16" OEM Biolines
Michelin Pilot Sport AS3+

DIY Intake
R8 Coils
IE Stage 1 Tune

GTI Valance
OEM GTI Catback
GTI Shocks, struts, springs waiting for installation

Profile? Sure!

2012 United Grey Golf 2.5L 5 speed
Manufactured July 2012, Purchased February 8th, 2013
No bells, no whistles. The most basic Golf VW produced at the time.

Engine
United Motorsports Stage 1 Tune
APR Carbonio Cold Air Intake
ECS Lightweight Underdrive Pulley
USP Catless Test Pipe
Custom Exhaust with Magnaflow Resonator

Drivetrain
ECS 70a Dogbone Insert
Custom Short Shifter with Solid Brass Endlinks

Exterior
Depo Replica LED Taillights
GTI Rear Valance
Klii Motorsports United Grey Rear Badge Insert

Suspension
ST Coilovers

Wheels
Sparco Drift 17x8 - Black
Hankook Ventus R-S4 225/45ZR-17

Interior
DEAutoKey LEDs to replace every single incandescence bulb
Texas legal limits for tint



As of July 2018, 23486 miles on the car.

Upcoming installs:
GTI Steering Wheel
ECS Clutch Pedal Stop
Bremmen GTI Sideskirts

Catless Test Pipe in CA :sm3: , just kidding! :clap::clap::clap: BIG cojones

Is the tune worth it in your opinion? I have a pretty basic golf as well, where the only real engine changes that I've done are the spark plugs (GTI/R plugs) and the intake (https://afepower.com/afe-power-51-12492-magnum-force-stage-2-pro-dry-s-cold-air-intake-system). If I get the tune, what should I expect?

Edit: Also love the look of your car. That grey, with the tinted windows, smoky tail lights and black wheels really give it a stealth look.

NotAFastVW said:

Is the tune worth it in your opinion? I have a pretty basic golf as well, where the only real engine changes that I've done are the spark plugs (GTI/R plugs) and the intake (https://afepower.com/afe-power-51-12492-magnum-force-stage-2-pro-dry-s-cold-air-intake-system). If I get the tune, what should I expect?

Edit: Also love the look of your car. That grey, with the tinted windows, smoky tail lights and black wheels really give it a stealth look.

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Well a tune on a NA car without any major change on hardware (such as tuning intake manifold runner length, plenum size, increasing air flow, stroking engine, etc...) won't add that much power but will increase the driveability and the fun of driving your car, for sure ! You might experience a gain of about 15hp / 20lb torque and small change on torque curve. The rev hang is removed which is a great thing for manual car

The stage 1 tune was definitely worth it. It vastly improved the driveability and with a CAI it made a big difference in get up and go. Actually when I went to stage 2 some of the driveability issues that stage 1 fixed came back. Of all the mods I did Stage 1was hands down the best bang for the buck. You have to change the intake though. I drove mine with the stock intake and stage 1 for a month or so and when I switched intakes it made a big difference.

FlowMK6 said:

Well a tune on a NA car without any major change on hardware (such as tuning intake manifold runner length, plenum size, increasing air flow, stroking engine, etc...) won't add that much power but will increase the driveability and the fun of driving your car, for sure ! You might experience a gain of about 15hp / 20lb torque and small change on torque curve. The rev hang is removed which is a great thing for manual car

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Lol, that's why I'm asking. If I knew I'd get more then 50 HP and TQ it'd be a no brainer... Thus wondering if there would be any noticeable handling/performance attributes that I might notice or appreciate? (P.S. the rev hang sucks a**).

Wascally Wabbit said:

The stage 1 tune was definitely worth it. It vastly improved the driveability and with a CAI it made a big difference in get up and go. Actually when I went to stage 2 some of the driveability issues that stage 1 fixed came back. Of all the mods I did Stage 1was hands down the best bang for the buck. You have to change the intake though. I drove mine with the stock intake and stage 1 for a month or so and when I switched intakes it made a big difference.

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Well then its a good thing I have a non-stock intake. My only gripe about the intake is that it kinda pulls warm air from the engine bay and ins't really a CAI... but either way the amount of noise it makes is remarkable.

On a side note, you guys have any thoughts about maybe putting some sort of scoop in the hood to get cooler air to the intake (without getting water in obviously). Intake I use : https://afepower.com/afe-power-51-12492-magnum-force-stage-2-pro-dry-s-cold-air-intake-system . This puts it in the top left corner (when looking at the engine bay from the front of the car). I figure there might be something I could do... possibly along the lines of (http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/craydrygu/media/bWVkaWFJZDo1NTA0NDc4/?ref=) in regards to its off-centerness, right above the intake. Not necessarily for this particulars example's look and "beauty."

Heat soak does make a difference. My car still has a rev issue when starting in first. When you so much as look at the gas pedal at a stop it revs to 1200 rpm. It only does it when the engine is warm. I had the USP intake previously and that was awesome. It's a true CAI and with stage 1 I had zero driveability complaints. But when I put the intake manifold on I had to remove it as the IM moves the throttle body too much to the left. I have a the pieces here to recreate the USP intake but haven't quite figured it out yet.

Wascally Wabbit said:

The stage 1 tune was definitely worth it. It vastly improved the driveability and with a CAI it made a big difference in get up and go. Actually when I went to stage 2 some of the driveability issues that stage 1 fixed came back. Of all the mods I did Stage 1was hands down the best bang for the buck. You have to change the intake though. I drove mine with the stock intake and stage 1 for a month or so and when I switched intakes it made a big difference.

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What kind of issues are you having ? I have a IE manifold with SRI tune from UM and I have no issues so far, still the same driveability than with the NA tune

Haha. That's the issue I'm having is that it's the same driveability than with the NA tune. JK (kinda). The only issue I have now is when starting from a stop. When you touch the gas while letting out the clutch the engine revs up about 400 to 500 rpm. There is nothing I have found that stops it. It only does it when the car is warm so I think it is heat related but it is a pain in the arse. I was getting my car washed and it was funny to watch the guy try and drive the car as you could hear it rev slightly as he tried to take off. Took him a few tries to figure it out. My car did this stock as well as rev hang in between gears so at least one issue is gone. Stage 1 with the USP intake fixed it but I think it was the usp intake that did it as I went back to stage 1 with the P-flow and it still rev'd in 1st.

Wascally Wabbit said:

Haha. That's the issue I'm having is that it's the same driveability than with the NA tune. JK (kinda). The only issue I have now is when starting from a stop. When you touch the gas while letting out the clutch the engine revs up about 400 to 500 rpm. There is nothing I have found that stops it. It only does it when the car is warm so I think it is heat related but it is a pain in the arse. I was getting my car washed and it was funny to watch the guy try and drive the car as you could hear it rev slightly as he tried to take off. Took him a few tries to figure it out. My car did this stock as well as rev hang in between gears so at least one issue is gone. Stage 1 with the USP intake fixed it but I think it was the usp intake that did it as I went back to stage 1 with the P-flow and it still rev'd in 1st.

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Do you have any video of that, I never seen that kind of issue

FlowMK6 said:

Do you have any video of that, I never seen that kind of issue

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Second this, seems interesting. Maybe throw in a pic of the engine bay? I like to see what everyone is talking about regarding their mods.

Not my pic, but this is what my engine looks like and I think it's got a much cleaner look then stock.

Don't have a video. It only does it when it is warm out. I will see if I can get one when it warms up tomorrow. I put a pick in my profile on the first page.