I'm probably the only one: Went BACK to stock.

VW-TX said:

Solid State Drives (SSD) overwrite data differently to Hard Disk Drives (HDD) which makes at least some of their data easier to recover. Most SSDs use flash memory to store data in pages and blocks, referenced by Logical Block Addresses (LBA) which are managed by the Flash Translation Layer (FTL). When the FTL modifies a sector it writes the new data to another location and updates the map so the new data appears at the target LBA. This leaves the old data in place and recoverable by data recovery software.[

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Thank you for proving my point, by veryifying exactly what i have said the whole time.

There is no extra space, its not programming to the next available block because its trying to make sure the old data is recoverable.

It erases block A0000D and it writes right back to block A0000D and so on and so on.

Chris@RevoTechnik said:

Thank you for proving my point, by veryifying exactly what i have said the whole time.

There is no extra space, its not programming to the next available block because its trying to make sure the old data is recoverable.

It erases block A0000D and it writes right back to block A0000D and so on and so on.

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LOL whatever. :dnftt:

VW-TX said:

And the REVO guy was a separate guy vs the APR dealer.

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No we verified that the first dealer who did not return your calls also sold APR, you ended up being flashed by APR at another dealer, but seem to have a bug up your ass about Revo only even though the dealer who supposedly wronged you sold both.

None of this changes the fact you are completely wrong about the actual topic.

VW-TX said:

LOL whatever. :dnftt:

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First off you said you were done and secondly EVERYONE in this thread has explained to you how flash memory works including youself now once you realized it was not the same as a HDD in your quote from wikipidia or similar source even proved that what I Am saying is write.

I'm a troll because you cannot accept that data is overwritten in the ecu?

Chris@RevoTechnik said:

No we verified that the first dealer who did not return your calls also sold APR, you ended up being flashed by APR at another dealer, but seem to have a bug up your ass about Revo only even though the dealer who supposedly wronged you sold both.

None of this changes the fact you are completely wrong about the actual topic.

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Interesting, because I never mentioned any dealer names other than the one that did my recent tune on this car. The issue was my REVO tune I had years ago. I went to another dealer in town which to talk about the tunes which I never called. So you must have your stories mixed up or making up stuff as usual.

Chris@RevoTechnik said:

First off you said you were done and secondly EVERYONE in this thread has explained to you how flash memory works including youself now once you realized it was not the same as a HDD in your quote from wikipidia or similar source even proved that what I Am saying is write.

I'm a troll because you cannot accept that data is overwritten in the ecu?

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Actually only you have. No one else has. A few actually backed me up. I even already talked to APR directly. Surprisingly they haven't chimed in here after I sent him the link. Maybe he doesn't want too.

And flash ram must have spare space to overwrite or it won't allow it. That is a given.

I never said it can't be overwritten, I said from the beginning there will always be stuff left over after the tune is removed that can prove it had one. EOD for me. And now you are blocked.

this thread deserves a:

While informative, this thread couldve easily gone to PM. Too much of a public ego pissing match to justify any real outcome.

VW-TX said:

Actually only you have. No one else has. A few actually backed me up. I even already talked to APR directly. Surprisingly they haven't chimed in here after I sent him the link. Maybe he doesn't want too.

And flash ram must have spare space to overwrite or it won't allow it. That is a given.

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No everyone who has chimed in about flash memory has verified that once a sector is overwritten then it is lost. Which is what you claimed was not possible.

The information you provided, which i stated well before you did only says that in the case of flash storage memory like a usb drive or an SSD that it will write to the next block to make sure that the information on the previous block is recoverable. Also since depending on the type of device there is a limited number of write cycled this prolongs the life of the device.

In the case of these ecus there is no address system in the OS that says ok the timing map was in A000D last time but since we have overwritten it again its now in A0000E just to make sure we dont lose the data.

The Data is erased from A0000D and it puts the information back in A0000D not A0000E. since it does this the data that was there previously is erased.

Since not all of the space is used for relevant data in the flash memory that actually runs the cars that is what people use to add in what they need for switching (in some applications). That data maybe filled with 0s originally and later it has actual information. Since that space is changed the checksums total changes and this is what VW is using to detect the modified software in the vehicle. Due to the fact that with every update and flash the various spaces of data that are used may change as they modify maps and make changes to say emissions controls when flashing you MUST rewrite all of it even if you are putting 0s back where 0s were and 1s back where 1s where. When we flash a car back to stock to ensure that the file does not end up corrupt and so that the checksums are correct and stock we again write back over those same spaces.


This is not a CF card in your camera that is using the blocks sequentially in order to prolong the life and preserve data. The data is put back to exactly the same block it was before or if it is moved 0s are put where it was before.

grambles423 said:

While informative, this thread couldve easily gone to PM. Too much of a public ego pissing match to justify any real outcome.

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Agreed.

grambles423 said:

While informative, this thread couldve easily gone to PM. Too much of a public ego pissing match to justify any real outcome.

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This is 100% publicly relevant data. Someone who didn't understand what type of memory was even used in the ecu was claiming the data could be recovered. Numerous people backed it up and he still didn't get it.

Nothing in this thread is for private consumption. VW-TX even proved himself wrong but continues to claim otherwise.

If he is going to make claims that we are lying to our customers he needs to back it up and we don't need to keep the users here wondering what the answer was because he has a problem with us and wants to derail a thread with his false information.

I deal with embedded devices at my work. If I flash new firmware, I pretty much assume that the old firmware is gone. Besides, something like this link sounds more expensive than just approving the warranty repair in the first place. Assuming the ECU didn't have to be cracked open, of course.

Chris@RevoTechnik said:

This is 100% publicly relevant data. Someone who didn't understand what type of memory was even used in the ecu was claiming the data could be recovered. Numerous people backed it up and he still didn't get it.

Nothing in this thread is for private consumption. VW-TX even proved himself wrong but continues to claim otherwise.

If he is going to make claims that we are lying to our customers he needs to back it up and we don't need to keep the users here wondering what the answer was because he has a problem with us and wants to derail a thread with his false information.

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I guess instead of publicly trying to prove a certain member wrong, it wouldve been beneficial to corroborate the story better over PM and give a final concensus post later. If it ran around in circles on PM, then it wouldve been totally indicative of the back and forth we're already looking at.

As far as I see it......this thread will never be looked at again because its merely pages of you and VW-TX arguing back and forth. Sure, there might be some relevant data, but nothing organized into an informative post.

Having followed this thread, I found it insightful and very informative, but that was literally reading post after post after post. I know nothing of software and probably neve will, but I enjoy reading information like this.

grambles423 said:

I guess instead of publicly trying to prove a certain member wrong, it wouldve been beneficial to corroborate the story better over PM and give a final concensus post later.

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I am here to inform and educate MY customers. If that means clarifying misinformation posted by someone who continuely trolls post of this nature then so be it. I never understood once why a discussion on a discussion forum needs to be taken to PM. It defeats the ENTIRE purpose of a discussion.

He made false statements based on no information at all on how these ecus or even flash memory works.

As you can see despite having all the facts in front of him he still does not understand how it works and no concensus would have been reached in PM which then based on what you want the memebers here would simply be left with his false information being posted as fact. That helps no one.

Well, this thread has run its course.