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My APR K04 install,experience
- Thread starter gregsju29
- Start date
366hp in k04 vs 274hp in stage 2= 92 hp difference..... I can only go off the numbers given by apr as at least they use the same dyno and hopefully/maybe the conditions were similar.... there have been a lot of dynos on 91 octane with whp between 300-315 and add 93 octane to the mix and 12-15% drivetrain loss, and you're at 366. Not sure what you are referring to????????????
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when you get on it on the highway (3rd-4th gear) and you are high up in the rpm range, it does feel very light. Being on stock suspension is not preferable, but I wanted to power first
It's not terrible, not ideal, but it's definitely manageable and controllable. I don't have any regrets and I know when I lower the car and get the white line anti lift kit, it should increase traction/driveability. For now, it's just a blast to drive, very fast, and my exterior is 100% stock, including stock exhaust, so it's pretty fun to be a sleeper
DRedman451
Go Kart Champion
i am talking about dynos...stage 2 cars dyno around 250-260whp...k04 300-315whp
The thing with drivetrain loss is the more power you make at the crank, the morepower you lose
would love to see a stage 2 dyno at 250-260 whp???????? 260 whp would be like a 5% drive train loss, which doesn't really make sense. Here's a stage 2 dyno at 225 whp: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4191868-2009-GTI-APR-Stage-2-Dyno. Here's a stage one at 212 whp: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5217797-2011-GTI-APR-Stage-1-Results
DRedman451
Go Kart Champion
both the dynos you posted had issues...one had no fan and was on a dyno that wasn't reading right, and the other had 116 degree iat :thumbsup:
zhijjawi10
Go Kart Champion
I put down 237whp and 274wtq when I was stage 2 fully bolted.
DRedman451
Go Kart Champion
at rai?....anyways its not the point that numbers on dynos matter...just comparing dynos of the same car stage 2 vs k04 show 60-75whp difference
Banshee1
Go Kart Champion
Is drivetrain loss a constant percentage of power made by the engine? It seems more likely to me that it's a constant value such as 25chp loss to drivetrain friction. If it was a constant percentage that would indicate that friction (drivetrain loss) increases with increased power. I could be way off base here, just speculating.
grambles423
Automotive Engineer
No. Driveline loss is a function of RPM, Temperature, Material deformation, fluid vsicosity (another function of temperature), rotational momentum, and physical mechanical properties between joint connections and gearing teeth.
Basically, sitting still at idle will be less than that of WOT at redline.
DRedman451
Go Kart Champion
off topic, but....when designing/engineering for an auto manufacturer, do they actually take that into consideration...so say when subaru says the imprezza makes 170hp they know its only going to put out a whopping 120awhp?
grambles423
Automotive Engineer
No, they normally design the engine first and throw it into a vehicle and design the rest around it. Good example...massive SUVs with 4cyl engines and DCTs to propel it forward enough to even make it comparable. But by God they're getting 28MPG while they are a dog in traffic.
Doesnt make since, I know, but why else has VW continued to offer their 2.0T in almost EVERY single vehicle. Cost and profit. Some engines are given better tunes and slightly better hardware to compensate. (IE: Ridgeline with V6 VTEC for more low end torque or the new 2.4L Civic SI)
ok, i see your stage 2 dynos. I think that's fair then. WHP verse brake hp is obviously different. Originally i was referring to brake hp.
I also have only seen k04 dynos on 91 octane. Have you seen any on 93 with the version 2 tune? The only thing i can find on youtube is 313 whp on the version 1 tune.
I think we're splitting hairs here. If you take 80 brake horsepower, with 15% drivetrain loss, you are looking at 68 whp. If you did it with 90 brake horsepower, you are at 76.5 whp. If you take APR's number of 366 hp minus stage 2 of 274, you are at 92 horsepower. So it's pretty close.
Banshee1
Go Kart Champion
Right, but what I was really getting at was the question about whether drivetrain loss is a constant percentage across all power levels (how everyone treats it) or if it is more of a certain amount of power, regardless of how much power the engine is making.
I still don't know if that makes any sense. does in my mind...
grambles423
Automotive Engineer
I dont get the second portion or your comparison.
You have constant percentage (pretty much what EVERYONE does) and....????