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APR Stage 1 or 2...downpipes? Prices?

A

Atty

Ready to race!
So I spoke with Reeves Motorsports (a local VW/Audi/Etc dealer who does APR tuning) and got my quote for a tune. Sale price of $599 fully loaded, I guess that is the best way to go, an extra $50 for all the programs seems like a good deal. They do charge a $220 labor install fee. Apparently its a one time fee, after that any ECU upgrades or work done is covered. So if I go 1 now I can upgrade for free to 2 later on. Is this a good deal? About average?

Now my problems are A) They only have the eurojet downpipe track edition and I'm not sure I want to go catless. I know I can just swap out the middle section for the catted version. I have a feeling this is a non point because they'll charge extra labor for the DP install which I won't want to pay and I can install it myself.

On the topic of downpipes, eurojet vs billyboat vs APR. ECS lists the APR for $629, Billyboat for $549, and Eurojet w/ cat for $558. Of these three, what real differences are there? Every thread on here I've read shows that they are all very similar in quality and driving characteristics. From those of you that have used them, are there any complaints? Any annoying noises? Would you buy them again?

I guess my biggest concern is if I go Stage 1 and appreciate it, enjoy it for what it is, then go Stage 2, I'll appreciate the mods more and enjoy the journey to power. I'll have a greater appreciation for it. Then again, if I just go Stage 2 now I'll be content with my car and not worry about these mods ever again, moving on to other areas of the car.

What do you all recommend? I'm new to modding my car and the "tuning" area. I'm all for it but I'm not sure which route to go.

My options so far are: Stage 1 now, order DP later, flash to 2 and enjoy. Stage 2 now, buy DP first and install it myself, then go down and get flashed. Or Stage 2 tune + DP from Reeves, installed all by them, and I'm worry free.

Such a hard decision to make. :(
 
Lou Maiuri

Lou Maiuri

Banned
Atty said:
So I spoke with Reeves Motorsports (a local VW/Audi/Etc dealer who does APR tuning) and got my quote for a tune. Sale price of $599 fully loaded, I guess that is the best way to go, an extra $50 for all the programs seems like a good deal. They do charge a $220 labor install fee. Apparently its a one time fee, after that any ECU upgrades or work done is covered. So if I go 1 now I can upgrade for free to 2 later on. Is this a good deal? About average?

Now my problems are A) They only have the eurojet downpipe track edition and I'm not sure I want to go catless. I know I can just swap out the middle section for the catted version. I have a feeling this is a non point because they'll charge extra labor for the DP install which I won't want to pay and I can install it myself.

On the topic of downpipes, eurojet vs billyboat vs APR. ECS lists the APR for $629, Billyboat for $549, and Eurojet w/ cat for $558. Of these three, what real differences are there? Every thread on here I've read shows that they are all very similar in quality and driving characteristics. From those of you that have used them, are there any complaints? Any annoying noises? Would you buy them again?

I guess my biggest concern is if I go Stage 1 and appreciate it, enjoy it for what it is, then go Stage 2, I'll appreciate the mods more and enjoy the journey to power. I'll have a greater appreciation for it. Then again, if I just go Stage 2 now I'll be content with my car and not worry about these mods ever again, moving on to other areas of the car.

What do you all recommend? I'm new to modding my car and the "tuning" area. I'm all for it but I'm not sure which route to go.

My options so far are: Stage 1 now, order DP later, flash to 2 and enjoy. Stage 2 now, buy DP first and install it myself, then go down and get flashed. Or Stage 2 tune + DP from Reeves, installed all by them, and I'm worry free.

Such a hard decision to make. :(
Click to expand...


Okay... Here we go


220 labor is a bit steep and here is why. The cracking of the ECU should cost you around an hour's worth of labor; typically 100-115 depending on what shop you are in. After the ECU is cracked and you decide on stage II you can just plug the tuner computer in and download the software through your ODB-II port in the dash. This procedure takes about 10 minutes and therefore the 220 one time fee is essentially a hidden fee to make you feel like you are paying less. All together the flash from stock to stage 1 to stage 2 should run you around 160 in labor on the conservative side.

APR and BB are the same DP essentially so your only other option is the Eurojet. Out of the three I would go with BB or APR (which I run) for the best quality and sync with your APR tune. Now, I would decide whether or not to get a catback exhaust beforehand because if you get APR or BB downpipes they are going to have to be removed after installation and trimmed down to fit your aftermarket exhaust, provided if they aren't BB or APR cat backs.


In my personal experience if you are new to the scene I would have the shop do the install. I would call around and read up more on options in both the hardware department and the tuner shop department. Some shops simply overcharge because they can, not because they do superior work. The VW scene can be grimey so I would take steps to eliminate this at all possible costs. Getting work professionally done, such as the DP will save you time and aggravation in both the short and long runs. The tuning shop will have pneumatic drills and wrenches that tighten the clamps on your exhaust much tighter than you can do yourself under jack stands.


IMO I would go straight to stage II as I essentially view stage I a waste of time looking back. Plus, they can't charge you that bullshit 220 one time fee that they pull out of their ass to make a little more off of you. If you are manual you are most certainly going to need a clutch upgrade or a disc at the least; you can find reviews in the 2.0 engine, tunes section. It isn't as simple as bolting on power and being good to go, you are going to need to invest in beefing up your car to handle the power if you want it to last. I suggest reading member journals and seeing what route you want to take before jumping in, or at least know the risks and rewards before you go this route.


cheers and welcome to the forum !
 
A_Bowers

A_Bowers

Moderator
Dafuq?!! 250 for install!!!!


You are better off sending the ECU to APR directly for the flash, and not having to pay that extra for the labor. Thats outrageous.


Stage 2 is really determined by your driveline. MT or DSG. MT you will generally have clutch failure shortly after the upgrade.


There are plenty of threads on Downpipes and the lot....ill let you do the searching. The more specific topics i tried to cover.
 
Lou Maiuri

Lou Maiuri

Banned
A_Bowers said:
Dafuq?!! 250 for install!!!!


You are better off sending the ECU to APR directly for the flash, and not having to pay that extra for the labor. Thats outrageous.


Stage 2 is really determined by your driveline. MT or DSG. MT you will generally have clutch failure shortly after the upgrade.


There are plenty of threads on Downpipes and the lot....ill let you do the searching. The more specific topics i tried to cover.
Click to expand...


stop freaking me out with that noise
 
MKV727

MKV727

Go Kart Champion
Reeves is a great shop, its where I go for reflashes/software updates. That being said, $220 is too much money. Tell them an hour of labor or you're going to Cars & Concepts or UroTuning to get flashed GIAC. What feels like an eternity ago I got flashed APR stage 1 there and then APR stage 2 and finally APR stage 2+ at APR HQ. I'm FSI though, so I can be port flashed, regardless I've never been hit with a fee to get flashed at anytime from anybody. The point being, the labor fee is negotiable.

As far as the downpipe is concerned, ask Reeves to call up APR and tell them to get you a stage 1 test pipe file. This allows you to get a downpipe down the road and not be in a rush to get a reflash due to CEL. I'd enjoy stage 1, do your homework and get a downpipe later.

Instead of rushing to get a downpipe, I'd grab a stage 1 Carbonio as you'll feel plenty of power from that upgrade after your tune.
 
A

Atty

Ready to race!
Lou Maiuri said:
Okay... Here we go


220 labor is a bit steep and here is why. The cracking of the ECU should cost you around an hour's worth of labor; typically 100-115 depending on what shop you are in. After the ECU is cracked and you decide on stage II you can just plug the tuner computer in and download the software through your ODB-II port in the dash. This procedure takes about 10 minutes and therefore the 220 one time fee is essentially a hidden fee to make you feel like you are paying less. All together the flash from stock to stage 1 to stage 2 should run you around 160 in labor on the conservative side.

APR and BB are the same DP essentially so your only other option is the Eurojet. Out of the three I would go with BB or APR (which I run) for the best quality and sync with your APR tune. Now, I would decide whether or not to get a catback exhaust beforehand because if you get APR or BB downpipes they are going to have to be removed after installation and trimmed down to fit your aftermarket exhaust, provided if they aren't BB or APR cat backs.


In my personal experience if you are new to the scene I would have the shop do the install. I would call around and read up more on options in both the hardware department and the tuner shop department. Some shops simply overcharge because they can, not because they do superior work. The VW scene can be grimey so I would take steps to eliminate this at all possible costs. Getting work professionally done, such as the DP will save you time and aggravation in both the short and long runs. The tuning shop will have pneumatic drills and wrenches that tighten the clamps on your exhaust much tighter than you can do yourself under jack stands.


IMO I would go straight to stage II as I essentially view stage I a waste of time looking back. Plus, they can't charge you that bullshit 220 one time fee that they pull out of their ass to make a little more off of you. If you are manual you are most certainly going to need a clutch upgrade or a disc at the least; you can find reviews in the 2.0 engine, tunes section. It isn't as simple as bolting on power and being good to go, you are going to need to invest in beefing up your car to handle the power if you want it to last. I suggest reading member journals and seeing what route you want to take before jumping in, or at least know the risks and rewards before you go this route.


cheers and welcome to the forum !
Click to expand...
I've got a DSG so I don't think I have too much to worry about in the transmission depeartment, unless I want to go K04 and start looking at $X,XXX clutch packs after getting close to 350-400TQ. I'll probably go BB or APR, which one will go with my stock catback better? I plan to keep the stock exhaust system.

A_Bowers said:
Dafuq?!! 250 for install!!!!


You are better off sending the ECU to APR directly for the flash, and not having to pay that extra for the labor. Thats outrageous.


Stage 2 is really determined by your driveline. MT or DSG. MT you will generally have clutch failure shortly after the upgrade.


There are plenty of threads on Downpipes and the lot....ill let you do the searching. The more specific topics i tried to cover.
Click to expand...
My only problem sending it off is that I have to dismantle my car, overnight it ($100 bucks), wait to get it back, and reinstall it. Installing it is no problem but being without a useable car for a few days is annoying. I guess I can consider it, I'll start mulling it over. I have a DSG so I'm ok at Stage 2, as far as other mods go, I've read that you saw mounts (I'm worried about driving quality, smoothness, vibrations, etc.) and swaybars (I'm OK with that, no real change as I understand it) as a necessity with the extra power. I'll consider these options. Summer tires will be my next big investment when these stock ones die.
 
Lou Maiuri

Lou Maiuri

Banned
MKV727 said:
Reeves is a great shop, its where I go for reflashes/software updates. That being said, $220 is too much money. Tell them an hour of labor or you're going to Cars & Concepts or UroTuning to get flashed GIAC. What feels like an eternity ago I got flashed APR stage 1 there and then APR stage 2 and finally APR stage 2+ at APR HQ. I'm FSI though, so I can be port flashed, regardless I've never been hit with a fee to get flashed at anytime from anybody. The point being, the labor fee is negotiable.

As far as the downpipe is concerned, ask Reeves to call up APR and tell them to get you a stage 1 test pipe file. This allows you to get a downpipe down the road and not be in a rush to get a reflash due to CEL. I'd enjoy stage 1, do your homework and get a downpipe later.

Instead of rushing to get a downpipe, I'd grab a stage 1 Carbonio as you'll feel plenty of power from that upgrade after your tune.
Click to expand...


+1 on the intake.



Basically, go to Grambles sticky thread "want to modify your gti? Start Here." It is a much more eloquent and organized archive than what you are going to get with off the top of the head responses.
 
P

prospal

Ready to race!
OP - When they say clutch "failure" they are referring to a slipping clutch. Your clutch wont all of a sudden break, it just begins to slip in higher gears. I've seen some get as far as ~10k miles before they SAY their clutch began to slip, but they must have been babying the hell out of it. If you're DSG, then you have no worries whatsoever (except for the fact that 'D' mode will suck even more than when you're stock. the car shifts way too early for the power available. a DSG reflash will solve this problem if you enjoy driving in 'D').

Anyway, I went with an APR downpipe and AWE catback exhaust, basically for the sole reason that I got a good deal on the DP and thought that the AWE CBE was the best sounding/looking exhaust. The DP needs to be cut to fit, but, IMO, it's the best sounding exhaust I could have asked for.

Although I'm K04'd now, I'd do Stage 1 -> Stage 2 -> beyond. It really allows you to appreciate the power gains each ounce of money you pump into the car and lets you feel what each mod can do for you. And unless money is no issue, it gives you a bit of time to save up for the other supporting mods you'll eventually need/want (IE - Intake, Downpipe, Cat Back Exhaust, Intercooler, Clutch, etc). I stayed Stage 1 for about 18k, then went stage 2 for about 10k, and now I'm k04'd and I have loved the journey.

However, if you settle on the fact that you want the power now, just go for Stage 2. I think it drives a little smoother than Stage 1 (Stage 1 had a bit more hesitation/boost surging with the DSG tranny), and you'll get some more top-end power and added noise :)

And yes, $220 is very steep, but if that's all you can find, then I guess you're sort of stuck to that. I personally got mine flashed from APR, so I had it done for free :) But about 1 hour of labor is normal.
 
A

Atty

Ready to race!
Called another local APR dealer, Cars & Concepts in Tampa and they quoted $196 for labor + the $599. :(
 
D

dallasjetfan

Ready to race!
I've never gone S2, but I have had had S1 with my GLI, GTI and now my CC as of today. I feel S1 is plenty of power for my needs. I do not race and will not ever. I haven't had a ticket in 18 years. I enjoy the extra power for accelerating on the highway and sometimes around town. S1+intake is more than enough power for my FWD car. I focus more on handling. Personally, I would go for S1+ Modshack intake and then if not enough or you get bored go S2. I paid $75 for install on my CC today.
 
A_Bowers

A_Bowers

Moderator
dallasjetfan said:
I've never gone S2, but I have had had S1 with my GLI, GTI and now my CC as of today. I feel S1 is plenty of power for my needs. I do not race and will not ever. I haven't had a ticket in 18 years. I enjoy the extra power for accelerating on the highway and sometimes around town. S1+intake is more than enough power for my FWD car. I focus more on handling. Personally, I would go for S1+ Modshack intake and then if not enough or you get bored go S2. I paid $75 for install on my CC today.
Click to expand...

Clearly you don't know what you are missing. Stage 2 is perfect
 
P

prospal

Ready to race!
Atty said:
Double post for lulz.

They emailed me my quote, they want $300 for a downpipe install!
Click to expand...

Now that's a little more reasonable hehe.

What DP is that for? You will have to mod some of the aftermarket DP's to fit your stock catback.
 
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