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Are you planning on any 2.0 TDI Performance Upgrades?

biped

Ready to race!
got the unitronic stage 1 tune yesterday, have driven probably 600km since the tune so the car's ecu should be well-adjusted by now.

while not ground-breaking, it is certainly a great improvement overall and i can feel the difference more than most 4 cylinder (na) tunes, obviously.

the car's powerband is just smoother. it is even easier to drive at low speeds. first and second feel almost the same, as they're fairly quick gears anyway, but you notice something is up in second. third and fourth are just great. you can pretty much eat anyone beside you very quickly by rolling on to it in third. up long hills and inclines, forget about it. the car just pulls. and the added horsepower has helped alleviate the flatter "falling off" feeling of the curve after 3000 rpm, it stays pulling very nicely through to about 4100 rpm on the tach.

fifth is actually very pleasant on the highway and will get you up into illegal speeds very quickly. and if i choose, at almost any rpm on the highway, i can just leave it in sixth and pass people at will.

pretty satisfied overall. combined with the vag work i got done at the same time, i'm a happy camper.
 

jade eyed wolf

Ready to race!
got the unitronic stage 1 tune yesterday, have driven probably 600km since the tune so the car's ecu should be well-adjusted by now.

while not ground-breaking, it is certainly a great improvement overall and i can feel the difference more than most 4 cylinder (na) tunes, obviously.

the car's powerband is just smoother. it is even easier to drive at low speeds. first and second feel almost the same, as they're fairly quick gears anyway, but you notice something is up in second. third and fourth are just great. you can pretty much eat anyone beside you very quickly by rolling on to it in third. up long hills and inclines, forget about it. the car just pulls. and the added horsepower has helped alleviate the flatter "falling off" feeling of the curve after 3000 rpm, it stays pulling very nicely through to about 4100 rpm on the tach.

fifth is actually very pleasant on the highway and will get you up into illegal speeds very quickly. and if i choose, at almost any rpm on the highway, i can just leave it in sixth and pass people at will.

pretty satisfied overall. combined with the vag work i got done at the same time, i'm a happy camper.

I had the Unitronic stage 1 tune in my TDI a while back, but I returned it for the APR stage 1 instead. The reason being that with the Unitronic tune, I ran into stuttering/knocking issues in certain gears, especially 4th gear during moderate throttle pulls in the 1600 - 2000 RPM neighbourhood.

The APR stage 1 doesn't offer quite as much of a performance gain compared to the Unitronic tune, but what it lacks in power, it more than makes up for (IMO) in the refinement of the tune itself, as well as other neat features like the ability to use the cruise control buttons/swtich to toggle between stock and other non-stock ECM profiles. The throttle immobilizer feature is a nice touch as well, especially if you know you're going to park in a dodgy area.

The knocking issues I had with Unitronic are completely gone now that I have the APR stage 1 instead. Well worth the $$$!

Of course, it also helps that I've had a Snow Performance water/methanol injection system installed as well. I've tinkered around with it for a while and I've had some pretty satisfying results so far. It's a little tricky getting the injection mapping just right, otherwise you won't really feel any extra power. For me I'm running with a 50/50 WM mix (home mixed from pure neat methanol and distilled water), which I think is one of the cheaper ways to do it in the long run. I have the injection mapping attached to the boost pressure instead of EGT's for better and more immediate response. I've got it set to begin ramping up injection on the low power nozzle at 9 psi, the high power nozzle kicks in at 18 psi, and the max psi has been defined as 26 psi.

With these variables, especially in combination with the APR tune, when you put your foot down you feel it. There's still a bit of tubo lag, but once you cross that 9 psi mark on the injection, it's like a kick in the pants!

I don't know how fast this makes my TDI compared to other cars as far as numbers are concerned, but I didn't have any issues keeping up with a pretty fast Z4 on the highway a little while ago. I wouldn't have dreamed of being able to do that in a stock TDI. That's gotta be worth something...

P.S. Something else to note about W/M Injection: If you're going to install a W/M system in your ride, make sure you have a system toggle switch that's easy to get to. Generally you're not going to want to turn on the system until your engine has warmed up to normal operating temps. It's also important to run your engine under load for at least a minute or two with the injection system turned off before you turn off the engine itself, otherwise you'll probably get steam condensing and cooling back down to water when the engine cools down again, which can make for difficult starting, especially in cold weather conditions.
 

Saabstory

.:R32 OG Member # 002
W/M tell me more...
 

85RedGolf2.5

Go Kart Champion
I don't know about all that w/m injection stuff... I don't know if I'd trust myself with shooting water into a running engine! LOL... now if only BULLY Dog would come upwith something like their Six Gun system they have for Truck Diesels, along with their Propane&Nitrous Injection system they have as well. When I was into trucks, went to a mudding and truck pull event. Guy had a bad arsed Dodge Diesel Dually on 44'' mudders running Bully Dog on the highest stage with their propane and Nitrous injection system and was able to pull that sled 450' instead of 250-300 like most everyone else!

I'd like to see what a system like that would do for us!
 
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misanfil1

New member
Hi Chris,

I have been curious with all the various notes on many forums, will bigger nozzels make a difference with a stage 1 Revo tune and no mods to exhaust or intake? Thx
 

jade eyed wolf

Ready to race!
W/M tell me more...


So, not too long after I had originally bought my TDi last year, I was filling up, and this guy with a big Cummins truck was complimenting me on the new ride, and we got to talking performance upgrades (because I already knew I was planning on a few! ;) ), and that's when he told me about Snow Performance, and showed me the setup he had for his truck. I was initially sceptical, but nonetheless impressed.

Of course my initial thought was "Man, injecting water into a running engine can't be good..." However, having done thorough research into the matter, I eventually warmed up to the idea.

Apparently, the notion of injecting water into an internal combustion engine (both gasoline or diesel) is nothing new. Fighter pilots during WWII injected water into their engines as a means of synthetically raising the effective octane rating of the fuel, and thereby allowing for higher compression ratios, better thermodynamic efficiency, and therefore significantly higher power. During the course of its development, the popular Rolls Royce Merlin V12 engine used in the American P51 Mustang and the wonderfully famous British Spitfire, went from pitiful (for a 27l engine!) sub 1000HP numbers to over 2,500HP (Holy $!!!) towards the end of it's development with water injection. The strangest/coolest thing about it was that despite the higher compression ratios, forced-induction boost pressures, and the enormously increased power outputs, the engines themselves became more reliable as well because they had lower overall operating temperatures.

That's good. Lower temps means less thermal stress on critical engine components, and therefore higher reliability.


So what goes on during the diesel cycle when W/M is a part of the equation? It takes a little time to fully explain, so bear with me as I try my best to go into detail on what happens during each stage of the process (apologies if TL;DR :p):

Intake:
For starters, methanol is miscible in water (they become chemically homogeneous via an exothermic reaction (produces its own heat when they mix)). This dramatically affects the evaporative qualities of the water, so that it not only freezes at lower temperatures, but also evaporates into a gas at lower temperatures as well. This is what we want during the intake, because it means that when this is sprayed into the charged air stream (post intercooler, but pre intake manifold), the charge air temperatures will drop even further as the fine mist of W/M absorbs even more heat and becomes more gaseous. Cooler charged intake means a denser charge, and thus more stored potential energy.


Compression:
It's important to remember that the auto-ignition point for most diesel fuel is somewhere in the neighbourhood of 210 degrees C (I think. Correct me if I'm wrong). Already that's more than twice the temperature (at 1 bar) for water to become steam. As the temperature and pressure of the compression rises, the W/M will remain suspended in the charged air without auto-igniting because it has a much higher auto-ignition threshold than diesel fuel. The compression temps and pressures won't be much different than just straight air, but with the W/M, much more of that energy will be stored in the water vapour than in air molecules, because water has a VERY high heat density compared to other compounds. This is good, because it means that there's more heat being absorbed by the water (which can be exhausted) than there is heat being absorbed by the engine itself (like the cylinder side walls, pistons, heads, valves, etc), which can't be exhausted.


Ignition:
In a lot of modern diesel engines, especially in our TDi's, it's not uncommon for there to be multiple, and very precise, fuel injection occurrences. Usually there's a small pre-injection just before the piston reaches TDC (top of the compression stroke). This is done in order to rapidly raise temperatures and pressures right before the main injection at TDC. This is where things really get interesting in the case of W/M. Due to the fact that the methanol ignites faster than the diesel fuel does (which tries to push the piston faster during the power stroke, and thus gives you more power), the pre-ignition fuel injection will cause energy levels to rise even further, while the water will keep temps in check by absorbing that additional energy without yet completely vaporizing. Even though temperatures are now well above water's normal boiling point, the enormous pressure will keep some microscopic water droplets from vaporizing yet. *I'm not entirely sure if the water at this point in the process becomes a supercritical fluid or not, but wouldn't surprise me if it did briefly.

So, now when the main power injection happens, the fuel is going to be injected into much higher energy dense conditions, which allows it to combust more efficiently and completely. As we pass TDC, and the piston moves back down for the power stroke, any microscopic water droplets that couldn't vaporize before, due to the enormous pressures, will now become a very hot and very dry steam as temperatures rise (from the fuel combustion) and pressures fall (from the piston moving down). This steam expands very quickly and with a LOT of force, which in turn provides additional torque.


Exhaust:
Due to the fact that more heat from the combustion process is absorbed by the water than by the engine itself, that heat is therefore more efficiently taken out of the engine when all that steam is vented out during the exhaust stroke. This does mean that you may see slightly higher EGT's but nothing harmful or dangerous. The EGT's are higher because your engine is more efficiently burning its fuel, as well as exhausting the heat from that process, not necessarily because the combustion itself is hotter. This isn't necessarily a bad thing either, especially when you consider that the EGR system can now work better as well. The EGR has more heat with which to burn away excess particulate matter. Plus there's less particulate matter going into it in the first place because the combustion process is more complete and therefore cleaner.


Bonus effects:
One of the biggest issues that has plagued direct injection engines, both diesel and gasoline, is carbon build-up on the intake valves. The reason for this is due to the fact that there's normally a small bit of overlap between the exhaust stroke and the next intake stroke with relation to which valves are open or not. In other words, there are times when BOTH the intake and the exhaust valves are (partly) open at the same time while the remaining exhaust gasses are still going out and the new intake gases are coming in. OK, so what? Why does carbon build up on the intake valves and not the exhaust valves? Temperature. The exhaust valves are going to be much hotter than the intake valves, so any carbon that would build up there, usually gets burned off. That's not the case for the intake valves however. Carbon will build up, but it never gets hot enough for it to be burned off.
Before the advent of direct injection, the intake valves usually had some kind of direct contact with unburned fuel as it went into the combustion chamber. That unburned fuel has a cleaning effect on carbon deposits, which normally keeps carbon build-up in check. With direct injection, that is no longer the case, as fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber, and so you lose that cleaning effect. With W/M, that cleaning effect is reintroduced, and the carbon build-up issues are mitigated. Think of it like getting your engine steam-cleaned every time you drive it!

So, to sum up, what does W/M do for you?
Keeps your engine clean and healthy (Carbon build up? What carbon build up?)
Improves the thermodynamic efficiency of the combustion process, which equates to:
Reduced emissions
Reduced thermal stress
More power
More torque
Better MPG (I believe Snow Performance's MPG gains are a little inflated, but personally I've noticed an improvement of at least 1 or 2, maybe more, MPG on average)

So, is it worth it?
Well, I got mine installed for about $1,500 including the cost of the kit and the labour for installing it. When you consider that it can easily cost that much (or more!) to have someone take apart the top of your engine to wire-brush, scrub, and clean out all that nasty carbon build-up, yeah, I'd say it was money well spent. I've put about 7k miles on my car since I had it installed, and I have had zero issues with it whatsoever. I'm happy with it! :)

Hope this has been thoroughly informative and helpful!
 
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Saabstory

.:R32 OG Member # 002
Haha thanks man. :D

I already understood the basics of W/M, was more interested in Diesel use and how it's worked for you, but you answered all that and more.

1 more question for you now: When can I see your car and get a ride in it to feel the difference :D
 

jade eyed wolf

Ready to race!
Haha thanks man. :D

I already understood the basics of W/M, was more interested in Diesel use and how it's worked for you, but you answered all that and more.

1 more question for you now: When can I see your car and get a ride in it to feel the difference :D


LOL!! Idk man, Swan Point is a bit of a hike from Fairfax!
 

mikesanto70

New member
Hi guys new to your forum, fellow gear head here as well. I have 2 quick questions, should I buy the DSG or a manual? I read this whole thread and no 1/4 mi times or trap speeds, one guy talked about smoking stock mustang gt's and Camaros, ummm, not to be a dick, but a GT is a 12 sec car bone stock as is a Camaro SS, he must have meant 1996-1998 mustang GT's and 6 cyl. Camaros. But I have enjoyed the thread and would like some advice on manual vs DSG, I would suspect the DSG would be faster because your constantly in the boost and can brake torque it off the line? Any competent advice/suggestions welcome.

Mike S.
Phoenix, AZ
 

jade eyed wolf

Ready to race!
Hi guys new to your forum, fellow gear head here as well. I have 2 quick questions, should I buy the DSG or a manual? I read this whole thread and no 1/4 mi times or trap speeds, one guy talked about smoking stock mustang gt's and Camaros, ummm, not to be a dick, but a GT is a 12 sec car bone stock as is a Camaro SS, he must have meant 1996-1998 mustang GT's and 6 cyl. Camaros. But I have enjoyed the thread and would like some advice on manual vs DSG, I would suspect the DSG would be faster because your constantly in the boost and can brake torque it off the line? Any competent advice/suggestions welcome.

Mike S.
Phoenix, AZ

At the end of the day, it's all about preference. I would suggest test driving both before making any final decisions. If you're looking for simply the fastest 1/4 mile times, then you might be better off with the DSG. If you enjoy being more involved in the driving experience itself, and aren't as concerned about simply making fast numbers, then go with the manual.

To put it another way, from a technical perspective, the DSG is fairly consistently faster than a manual (with maybe the exception of installing a dog-box tranny, and knowing how to use it properly), but it is also more complicated to tune and calibrate to performance upgrades. The manual gearbox is a great piece of engineering, and well matched to the 140CR, even with a few minor power upgrades. It's not as quick as the DSG, but it doesn't require any separate tuning and calibration like the DSG does.

DSG = Faster
Manual = Easier to tune

In my opinion, I prefer the manual because I have more fun with it, but that's me. Like I said at the beginning, it's about preference. ;)
 

Saabstory

.:R32 OG Member # 002
Hi guys new to your forum, fellow gear head here as well. I have 2 quick questions, should I buy the DSG or a manual?

No one can answer that question for you; I've had both (DSG 2008 R32 and Manual 2012 TDI) and both are great transmissions; just depends on what you like and what you are going for.
 
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