GOLFMK8
GOLFMK7
GOLFMK6
GOLFMKV
VW GTI MKVI Forum / VW Golf R Forum / VW Golf MKVI Forum / VW GTI Forum - Golfmk6.com



Go Back   VW GTI MKVI Forum / VW Golf R Forum / VW Golf MKVI Forum / VW GTI Forum - Golfmk6.com > Technical Topics > Tracking / Autocrossing / Driving Techniques


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-14-2017, 06:09 AM   #29
mraaf
Autocross Newbie
 
Drives: 2011 MK6 GTI
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 75
Anyone knows how's cooling system set-up on GTI TCR cars?
It seems they shrink the intercooler and move it closer to hood. This might gives way for a larger radiator. Idk..
__________________
REVO 3
mraaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2017, 12:44 AM   #30
Short Bus
FIA GT Newbie
 
Drives: '10 GTI
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 740
My first two steps would be fresh coolant and run a fin comb over the compressor coil. If that doesn't do it I'd see what's going on with the tune and if that's bringing the temps up to an abnormal degree.
Short Bus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2017, 04:01 PM   #31
Lao278
Drag Racing Champion
 
Drives: 2012 White Golf R
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: West Burbs, IL
Posts: 62
I used to run into overheating issues before then I bought a spare hood and cut some hood vents and my coolant temps peaked at 235 but never overheated/lost power this past weekend at Gingerman raceway, 75 sunny day. I was pushing my car pretty hard too since I just upgraded my pads/rotors and got RE71R tires.
__________________
White 2012 Golf R, Milltek turbo back exhaust, VWR cold air intake, HPFP, Bilstein PSS10 coilovers, APR stage 2+ tune, R8 Coils, BSH catch can, Snow Performance stage 2 w/m injection, BSH throttle pipe, Arm FMIC, Eurosport X brace
Lao278 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 12:09 AM   #32
PandaGTI
Formula 5000 Champion
 
Drives: M3, CC, FJ Cruiser, Spark EV
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 2,260
These are all great ideas.

In addition to this you can also
- run the stock tune in the AM sessions then as you get more comfortable and faster then do a session later in the AM on the 91 oct Ko4 tune (or 93 if your not in california) to get your fastest times then take it easy when the engine temps start to go up.
- during your actual "time attack" session maybe even use 100 oct combined with the 91 setting on the Ko4 tune or use a water meth setup to liquid cool then engine
- run an E85 tune
__________________
2010 CC; AWE KO4 with APR software; unitronic DSG software; APR intercooler; stage 1 carbonio; B&B downpipe; VF dogbone; Neuspeed RSE14; Neuspeed steel lines; Stoptech pads; Gold Coast body kit; H&R rear sway bar; stock suspension with Bilstein HD's
PandaGTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 11:37 AM   #33
Lao278
Drag Racing Champion
 
Drives: 2012 White Golf R
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: West Burbs, IL
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by PandaGTI View Post
These are all great ideas.

In addition to this you can also
- run the stock tune in the AM sessions then as you get more comfortable and faster then do a session later in the AM on the 91 oct Ko4 tune (or 93 if your not in california) to get your fastest times then take it easy when the engine temps start to go up.
- during your actual "time attack" session maybe even use 100 oct combined with the 91 setting on the Ko4 tune or use a water meth setup to liquid cool then engine
- run an E85 tune

Water/meth injection doesn't help with the overall coolant/oil temps. Myself and another user have w/m and we both were overheating at the track.
__________________
White 2012 Golf R, Milltek turbo back exhaust, VWR cold air intake, HPFP, Bilstein PSS10 coilovers, APR stage 2+ tune, R8 Coils, BSH catch can, Snow Performance stage 2 w/m injection, BSH throttle pipe, Arm FMIC, Eurosport X brace
Lao278 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 11:40 AM   #34
jay745
Mod Flanders
 
jay745's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 CW GTI Wolfsburg (racecar)
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 19,438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lao278 View Post
Water/meth injection doesn't help with the overall coolant/oil temps. Myself and another user have w/m and we both were overheating at the track.
It most likely is helping with oil temps. Unless you have an oil gauge tapped at the oil pan you can't really say that it is or isn't helping. It doesn't appear to be helping with coolant temps by much though I will say that.
__________________
Hit me up for VagCom in Chicago
Click >here< for my build thread.
I'll do your 40k service for much cheaper than a dealer.
jay745 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 12:05 PM   #35
Lao278
Drag Racing Champion
 
Drives: 2012 White Golf R
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: West Burbs, IL
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by jay745 View Post
It most likely is helping with oil temps. Unless you have an oil gauge tapped at the oil pan you can't really say that it is or isn't helping. It doesn't appear to be helping with coolant temps by much though I will say that.
I doubt w/m helps with your oil temps that much or we wouldn't be overheating since oil temps and coolant temps are related with the OEM oil cooler in place.
__________________
White 2012 Golf R, Milltek turbo back exhaust, VWR cold air intake, HPFP, Bilstein PSS10 coilovers, APR stage 2+ tune, R8 Coils, BSH catch can, Snow Performance stage 2 w/m injection, BSH throttle pipe, Arm FMIC, Eurosport X brace
Lao278 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 12:30 PM   #36
D-saint077
Ready to race!
 
Drives: 2010 GTI
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 21
Hello OP, I changed all my liquids with Motul Sport. (Trans, oil, breaks and coolant) For coolant i use Mo-cool with water and it works fine, no over heating. Huge difference from the first time i went to the track. Some of my friends run with an oil cooler and never have any overheating problems.
__________________
2010 CSG GTI. 6 MT. APR Ko4, Track ready.
D-saint077 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2017, 12:54 PM   #37
PandaGTI
Formula 5000 Champion
 
Drives: M3, CC, FJ Cruiser, Spark EV
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 2,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lao278 View Post
Water/meth injection doesn't help with the overall coolant/oil temps. Myself and another user have w/m and we both were overheating at the track.
W/M + taking out the weather strip + running the heater + aux oil cooler + engine tune set to 91 oct + manually shifting the DSG rather than letting S mode shift would get me a few extra laps before having to let the car cool.

In moderately aggressive driving according to my oil temp probe it kept the oil temps maybe 10 to 15 degrees cooler... but once you go to 10/10's for your fast lap none of the above really mattered much.

I also had one of the few Arkym vented CF hoods that helped a little but at speed it would flex enough that you need the hood pins to make sure it doesn't fly open.

Still after all of that the car would still overheat and eventually led to another warped headgasket...

After getting rid of that car and transferring the major mods onto my wife's VW CC I am not having any overheat issues and this is without the aux oil cooler. I think the difference is that my GTI had a really aggressive tune meant more for drag racing than track use... my wife's CC has an APR tune and it's been fine on the handful of track days I've done with it.

I think another factor is that past 300crank hp the Ko4 is working outside of its efficiency range. That little turbo has to spin much faster to make boost than a larger turbo. The Ko4 on my GTI was running so hot that it melted the welds around the flange that connects the downpipe to the turbo and popped it clean off at the welds. I think a larger turbo would run cooler and within its efficiency range.

Another thing that may help is running an electric push fan in front of the radiator... On the higher speed tracks like Big Willow the engine temps would come down pretty significantly on the front straight running flat out... I'm thinking a push fan could mimic that kind of airflow.

Lastly a high performance radiator would help alot as well. When I had my GTI there wasn't any made at the time. I tried a Mishimoto radiator however I think it only fit the FSI engine unless the ends of it where modified.

So to sum it up... push fans to force more cool air into the radiator + run the heater to pull the hot air out + remove the weather strip to allow the hot air to vent out + fabricate a high performance radiator + run a mild tune or set to a stock tune with stock boost levels + big turbo + oil cooler
__________________
2010 CC; AWE KO4 with APR software; unitronic DSG software; APR intercooler; stage 1 carbonio; B&B downpipe; VF dogbone; Neuspeed RSE14; Neuspeed steel lines; Stoptech pads; Gold Coast body kit; H&R rear sway bar; stock suspension with Bilstein HD's
PandaGTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2017, 02:53 PM   #38
Lao278
Drag Racing Champion
 
Drives: 2012 White Golf R
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: West Burbs, IL
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by PandaGTI View Post
W/M + taking out the weather strip + running the heater + aux oil cooler + engine tune set to 91 oct + manually shifting the DSG rather than letting S mode shift would get me a few extra laps before having to let the car cool.

In moderately aggressive driving according to my oil temp probe it kept the oil temps maybe 10 to 15 degrees cooler... but once you go to 10/10's for your fast lap none of the above really mattered much.

I also had one of the few Arkym vented CF hoods that helped a little but at speed it would flex enough that you need the hood pins to make sure it doesn't fly open.

Still after all of that the car would still overheat and eventually led to another warped headgasket...

After getting rid of that car and transferring the major mods onto my wife's VW CC I am not having any overheat issues and this is without the aux oil cooler. I think the difference is that my GTI had a really aggressive tune meant more for drag racing than track use... my wife's CC has an APR tune and it's been fine on the handful of track days I've done with it.

I think another factor is that past 300crank hp the Ko4 is working outside of its efficiency range. That little turbo has to spin much faster to make boost than a larger turbo. The Ko4 on my GTI was running so hot that it melted the welds around the flange that connects the downpipe to the turbo and popped it clean off at the welds. I think a larger turbo would run cooler and within its efficiency range.

Another thing that may help is running an electric push fan in front of the radiator... On the higher speed tracks like Big Willow the engine temps would come down pretty significantly on the front straight running flat out... I'm thinking a push fan could mimic that kind of airflow.

Lastly a high performance radiator would help alot as well. When I had my GTI there wasn't any made at the time. I tried a Mishimoto radiator however I think it only fit the FSI engine unless the ends of it where modified.

So to sum it up... push fans to force more cool air into the radiator + run the heater to pull the hot air out + remove the weather strip to allow the hot air to vent out + fabricate a high performance radiator + run a mild tune or set to a stock tune with stock boost levels + big turbo + oil cooler
I do agree with you on the K04 being pushed way beyond it's efficiency once you get passed a 300HP, oil cooler, and having the heat on. I'm running a stage 2+ Golf R and I was overheating at the track until I bought a spare hood and cut vents into and my coolant temp never passed 235 on a 75 sunny day. Where as before on the same track, I was overheating on a mid 60s cloudy day.


__________________
White 2012 Golf R, Milltek turbo back exhaust, VWR cold air intake, HPFP, Bilstein PSS10 coilovers, APR stage 2+ tune, R8 Coils, BSH catch can, Snow Performance stage 2 w/m injection, BSH throttle pipe, Arm FMIC, Eurosport X brace
Lao278 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2017, 10:56 AM   #39
ebuuz
Autocross Champion
 
ebuuz's Avatar
 
Drives: Mk6 GTI
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Orange County
Posts: 99
I wonder if it would benefit to take off the hood completely and track without one.. I guess you'd lose some aerodynamics and protection of engine bay components if anything were to happen
__________________
2012 CW 6 speed. F23T on APR k04 v3.1, APR Carbonio, CTS turboback, Clutchnet 6 puck disc, 034 Street Density motor and transmission mounts, Hawk HPS 5.0, Motul RBF600, Newsouth boost gauge, DieselGeek SS


Dyno vid of my car
ebuuz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2017, 12:42 PM   #40
jay745
Mod Flanders
 
jay745's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 CW GTI Wolfsburg (racecar)
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 19,438
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebuuz View Post
I wonder if it would benefit to take off the hood completely and track without one.. I guess you'd lose some aerodynamics and protection of engine bay components if anything were to happen
I would definitely not do that. There's a ton of stuff that is on the track that your hood takes a hit on. The aero would be completely messed up as well like you said.
__________________
Hit me up for VagCom in Chicago
Click >here< for my build thread.
I'll do your 40k service for much cheaper than a dealer.
jay745 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2017, 05:24 PM   #41
Short Bus
FIA GT Newbie
 
Drives: '10 GTI
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 740
Has anybody spent any time measuring the air pressure at various points around the car while it's in motion using something like a Magnehelic gauge? If you're feeling fancy you can probably rig up a bunch of barometers and log it with a laptop.

To oversimplify the complex and unpredictable subject of fluid dynamics, air flows from higher pressure areas to lower pressure areas. Consider your tires, they're inflated to a relatively high pressure. When you open the valve air flows out into the atmosphere, the only way to add air is to connect a source of air that's pressurized to a higher level, such as a tank containing air compressed at a higher rate than the tire.

This is the best picture I could find....



The red spots are high pressure areas. Our cars are obviously not those, but they'll share two things, the high pressure area at the front bumper and at the base of the windshield (cowl).

So if I were having cooling issues, I would want answers to these questions...

1. what is the pressure differential between the various points in front of the grill (upper and lower) where air is meant to enter the engine bay, and the various points between the radiator and the drivetrain

2. what is the pressure differential between the back of the engine bay at the firewall and the base of the cowl, with the rubber strip on and off the car.

3. what is the relationship between those two points, as in... if the weather strip is removed does the pressure differential between the primary cooling hardware at the front of the car become less favorable

Regarding #2, I feel that is it a near certainty that the air pressure at the base of the windshield is higher than the pressure at the back of the engine bay. That means that air would be entering the engine bay at the base of the windshield instead of leaving it (this is why the vents for the interior are in that spot). This might be beneficial, maybe removing the strip increases airflow through the back of the engine bay and out of the bottom of the car, helping push the hot air around the turbo out.


But, what #3 would answer is..... that it might be counter productive. Raising the air pressure at the back of the engine bay might be having a negative effect at the front where your main heat exchangers are mounted.

The hooded vent on Lao278's car absolutely makes sense. He's created a low pressure escape for the air that entered through the grill of the car. He's created more airflow through his cooling stack and it worked.

A thought regarding the placement of the aftermarket oil cooler.... is right in front of the condenser really the best spot? Some MkVs could be had with auxiliary radiators located behind the bumper cover on the driver's side (US)...


http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showth...=117682&page=5

There's surely plenty of room to fit an oil cooler in there. Remove the fog lights, put holes in the plastic trim, add this behind it...



Your radiator would probably be a lot more effective if you weren't sending air into it that had already passed through an oil cooler with 240+ degree fluid running through it.

Then there's this...



Yeah that's the R32 belly pan, but the stock one has NACA ducts in those same spots. If you go with a high quality, durable plate and fin oil cooler that seems like a safe place to try to mount the oil cooler as well.

Last edited by Short Bus; 04-27-2017 at 05:30 PM.
Short Bus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2017, 07:47 PM   #42
red_stapler
Rally Car Newbie
 
red_stapler's Avatar
 
Drives: '12 GTI DSG
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Short Bus View Post
But, what #3 would answer is..... that it might be counter productive. Raising the air pressure at the back of the engine bay might be having a negative effect at the front where your main heat exchangers are mounted.
Thanks, that was much more eloquent than my attempts at explaining earlier in the thread.
__________________
'02 Civic Si
Formerly: 12 GTI DSG
red_stapler is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.