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Old 07-19-2019, 02:32 PM   #7169
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So when I unplugged the boost line and the P3 guage read 1.2. I did the calibration and it now reads 0 when I unplug the boost line.

Still have the analog reading 35-40 PSI and the digital reading 27-29 PSI. Did confirm I have a 3 bar sensor.

Not sure we can get above 29 PSI safely with the engine pulling timing up in Denver due to intake temps climbing. Also not sure my tuner tunes cars with a 4 bar sensor or is willing to put in the time if we can safely get the car to use 30+ PSI.

Getting the 3 Bar sensor to work right took time on my setup due to a custom housing and not the tuners fault.

I chose a Frankenstein build.

We will see how the next log gathering goes. Maybe time to start looking for a different turbo setup and get one down the road.

Car does move well at 27-29 PSI.
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Old 07-19-2019, 05:54 PM   #7170
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Originally Posted by A3-Owner View Post
So when I unplugged the boost line and the P3 guage read 1.2. I did the calibration and it now reads 0 when I unplug the boost line.

Still have the analog reading 35-40 PSI and the digital reading 27-29 PSI. Did confirm I have a 3 bar sensor.

Not sure we can get above 29 PSI safely with the engine pulling timing up in Denver due to intake temps climbing. Also not sure my tuner tunes cars with a 4 bar sensor or is willing to put in the time if we can safely get the car to use 30+ PSI.

Getting the 3 Bar sensor to work right took time on my setup due to a custom housing and not the tuners fault.

I chose a Frankenstein build.

We will see how the next log gathering goes. Maybe time to start looking for a different turbo setup and get one down the road.

Car does move well at 27-29 PSI.
Well if you only have a 3 bar sensor your ECU can't see more than that so around 29psi is all your MAP can see above atmospheric pressure so even if you are running 40psi it will still report back 29psi. Your analog sensor does not have that limitation and reports directly back to P3 the accurate psi (up to 80psi) when calibrated. Needless to say, your logs will be affected by this limitation as well.

What are you using for boost control?
Do you have the .63?
Which manifold are you using?

Also, I think you have done a good job setting yourself up for making serious power but you haven't finished the job. Plenty of potential left. Keep in mind you chose a larger turbo for our size motor. That translates to a powerband that will occur in the latter part of the rpm range and it will likely fall off pretty hard in the lower rpm range. And it will tend to be a more on/off situation..... not much, not much, not much, then explosive power. Great for drag racing, scaring the crap out of unsuspecting passengers. Keeping it in the powerband means driving it and keeping it in top third of rpm range. Pretty much all in.

To extract the power, you will need to move forward and run something else instead of 91 or add something to it or to assist it. And of course proper custom tuning.
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Old Yesterday, 03:06 PM   #7171
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My results. 340 WHP and 320 Wheel Torque. High 13s in the 1/4 mile. 0 to 60 mph 4.7. What makes me sad is that I got the same times on an APR stage 2 setup. My APR stage 3 setup ran to 60 in 4 seconds and 12.5 in the 1/4 mile. My car is AWD and a DSG.

I found out that a CTS Boss 3071r Gen 2 with a Nostrum HPFP and ZZP injectors and TTRS LPFP and a Torqbyte PM4 on 26 to 29 PSI measured by a analog boost sensor on a P3 gauge can't make over 400 WHP. Before this car made 375 WHP on ZZP injectors on the stock HPFP with an APR stage 3 kit on a UM tune.

Shop and UM say the car is done. Guess I am stuck and struck out on this build setup. Hoped I could get 400 wheel but I guess I have a laggy K04 setup based on dyno and straight line acceleration numbers. Find a build that works and copy that. I will need to find a way to enjoy this setup.
So after having a few weeks to think it over, it hit me, the engine was heat soaked during these times. I feel like an idiot not thinking about it.

The first three dyno runs were done trying to get the dyno in the right mode and the numbers of 343/320 was on the fourth run. We were in a time crunch so we didn't wait for the car to cool down.

On the drag strip, I sat in line for 20 mins on hot asphalt so the engine must have been heat soaked. The engine was idling most of that time.

The turbo is larger and is more laggy.

The transmission slips more clutch due to the tune or more torque so that adds delay.

The car at upper twenty PSI is very fast to me at 1000 feet elevation when you get the turbo to spool up. I know for sure it has more power at this elevation then Denver.

I will keep learning and seeing how we can get more power if possible.

Once I have the answers I need I will drop this.
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Old Yesterday, 03:16 PM   #7172
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Well if you only have a 3 bar sensor your ECU can't see more than that so around 29psi is all your MAP can see above atmospheric pressure so even if you are running 40psi it will still report back 29psi. Your analog sensor does not have that limitation and reports directly back to P3 the accurate psi (up to 80psi) when calibrated. Needless to say, your logs will be affected by this limitation as well.

What are you using for boost control?
Do you have the .63?
Which manifold are you using?

Also, I think you have done a good job setting yourself up for making serious power but you haven't finished the job. Plenty of potential left. Keep in mind you chose a larger turbo for our size motor. That translates to a powerband that will occur in the latter part of the rpm range and it will likely fall off pretty hard in the lower rpm range. And it will tend to be a more on/off situation..... not much, not much, not much, then explosive power. Great for drag racing, scaring the crap out of unsuspecting passengers. Keeping it in the powerband means driving it and keeping it in top third of rpm range. Pretty much all in.

To extract the power, you will need to move forward and run something else instead of 91 or add something to it or to assist it. And of course proper custom tuning.
What are you using for boost control? Stock waste gate.
Do you have the .63?Yes
Which manifold are you using?The CTS Boss 600 kit says it is .63 on their site and if you got to their site and pull up the kit for the MK6 you can see the manifold.

You are right in saying this turbo is going to have different characteristics. I can already tell that. I need to set my expectations to this turbo.

Going any mixture of ethanol with this engine will be a big hurdle. I will have to ship the car to UM to get them to tune with the larger Nostrum Injectors I have. There is no flex fuel product for this car like for the Mk5/MK7 so the engine can't change its tune based on lower ethanol content on the fly.

I see others have a 4 bar sensor and E85 on a few build threads. I will find out what I can about using a 4 bar sensor.
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Old Yesterday, 04:22 PM   #7173
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Originally Posted by A3-Owner View Post
What are you using for boost control? Stock waste gate.
Do you have the .63?Yes
Which manifold are you using?The CTS Boss 600 kit says it is .63 on their site and if you got to their site and pull up the kit for the MK6 you can see the manifold.

You are right in saying this turbo is going to have different characteristics. I can already tell that. I need to set my expectations to this turbo.

Going any mixture of ethanol with this engine will be a big hurdle. I will have to ship the car to UM to get them to tune with the larger Nostrum Injectors I have. There is no flex fuel product for this car like for the Mk5/MK7 so the engine can't change its tune based on lower ethanol content on the fly.

I see others have a 4 bar sensor and E85 on a few build threads. I will find out what I can about using a 4 bar sensor.
Consider using a water meth system if this is a daily driven car. E85 works to make power but it isn't always available wherever you go and mileage goes WAY down. And you can just build on the fueling system you already have but any increase in power no matter how you choose to fuel it will require tuning.

I have a similar sized turbo EFR7163 and it will make about 360whp on 91 and I will use that tune for general driving and trips. I have an Aquamist water meth system running 100% M1 methanol with 5 jets. Although we have not gotten it tuned yet it should get me into the mid 400"s. Though the turbo is capable of 500+ it would take E85, which I may also do by adding a 5th or even 6th injector. The straight 91 tune, easy and convenient and with normal injectors the car runs stock like. Add meth and get into mid 400's for a cool running track car. If I feel the need to drag race then I will go all out with E85, which would run too hot for my usual trackdays (road course).

I have used w/m on a number of my forced induction cars with great results.

With water meth your tuner can be much more aggressive and probably give you a wider power band, big increase in the midrange and top end.

Talk with your tuner about your goals and approach so you are both on the same page before you get started. A number of approaches will help you reach your goal so you have choices. I don't know anything about the Nostrum setup but if they are just large injectors to replace your current 4 primary fuel injectors, make sure that aren't so big that you can't tune for 91 oct fuel when you want to run that etc.
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Old Today, 01:11 AM   #7174
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Originally Posted by GIACUser View Post
Consider using a water meth system if this is a daily driven car. E85 works to make power but it isn't always available wherever you go and mileage goes WAY down. And you can just build on the fueling system you already have but any increase in power no matter how you choose to fuel it will require tuning.

I have a similar sized turbo EFR7163 and it will make about 360whp on 91 and I will use that tune for general driving and trips. I have an Aquamist water meth system running 100% M1 methanol with 5 jets. Although we have not gotten it tuned yet it should get me into the mid 400"s. Though the turbo is capable of 500+ it would take E85, which I may also do by adding a 5th or even 6th injector. The straight 91 tune, easy and convenient and with normal injectors the car runs stock like. Add meth and get into mid 400's for a cool running track car. If I feel the need to drag race then I will go all out with E85, which would run too hot for my usual trackdays (road course).

I have used w/m on a number of my forced induction cars with great results.

With water meth your tuner can be much more aggressive and probably give you a wider power band, big increase in the midrange and top end.

Talk with your tuner about your goals and approach so you are both on the same page before you get started. A number of approaches will help you reach your goal so you have choices. I don't know anything about the Nostrum setup but if they are just large injectors to replace your current 4 primary fuel injectors, make sure that aren't so big that you can tune for 91 oct fuel when you want to run that etc.
That is great information. If I tuned for w/m, I will want a more intelligent system. The Nostrum injectors are very large.

Just need to get the overboost resolved due to being closer to sea level. I imagine that is a wastegate setting.

For where the car is, it cooks, turns well, has good brakes, transmissions shifts well, power band is smooth.

Car is faster to 60 at current elevation(did one launch), low 4 seconds. Clutches slipped in first, second and third gear so that makes me think the DSG is seeing higher numbers then the tune was setup for in CO.

It is more power then my Stage 3 setup and is a different power band.

Tuner and shop did good work on this build. I can be that annoying customer asking questions and checking on status. Hopefully I have not annoyed them too much.
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Old Today, 01:47 AM   #7175
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Originally Posted by A3-Owner View Post
That is great information. If I tuned for w/m, I will want a more intelligent system. The Nostrum injectors are very large.

Just need to get the overboost resolved due to being closer to sea level. I imagine that is a wastegate setting.

For where the car is, it cooks, turns well, has good brakes, transmissions shifts well, power band is smooth.

Car is faster to 60 at current elevation(did one launch), low 4 seconds. Clutches slipped in first, second and third gear so that makes me think the DSG is seeing higher numbers then the tune was setup for in CO.

It is more power then my Stage 3 setup and is a different power band.

Tuner and shop did good work on this build. I can be that annoying customer asking questions and checking on status. Hopefully I have not annoyed them too much.
Hopefully clutches aren't slipping vs tires losing grip because of torque. You can verify by putting it on dyno. There is an expected correlation between boost and torque. If you see boost going up but torque not following trans is slipping. None of the off the shelf DSG tunes offer additional clamping force but you can get a custom DSG tune that will and if you clutch pack is still in decent shape, may take care of your issue.

I put in a clutch pack, LSD and also added a full DSG cooling system in prep for the power. You can put in a Dodson racing clutch pack but they wanted like 2700 for the clutch pack, would love to have done that but at the time just could not bring myself to dump an additional 2K into the trans after already dumping almost 5K into it.

Cost of clutch pack is about 2K installed parts and labor. I didn't notice if you have an LSD but if you don't, get one, makes a HUGE difference and if you have to do tranny then it is a perfect time to put one in.

If you go w/m Aquamist is the one to use and would be classified as an intelligent system compared to Snow, Devilsown etc. Read about it on their website.
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