OEM clutch and Stage 1

[fredf]

This is from Tom at APR Tuning in response to a question on VWVortex regarding this issue:

"Are you seeing clutch failures on Stage 1 cars? Is the OEM manual clutch up to the task of handling the torque of Stage 1 (I know the DSG is)?
Tom: No only like 1 so far and the TSI has been out for nearly 3 yrs now, and the FSI for like 6yrs and there isn't that huge of torque difference

The 240mm clutches are pretty strong"


I think I will desist with this issue now and just make a decision and live with it.

Thanks for all the input.

[oeguy]

You'll be fine Fred my other piece of advice would be not to watch the shop do it because watching your new car get pulled apart isn't fun.

I had mine done at K&H I was prolly the first APR flashed MK6 in Toronto I got the same day he received the tool to perform the flash and actually was there again yesterday to get the new V1.2 SW installed and I must say they have made some changes to the original flash and of course for the better I'm sure you will be happy with the tune.

[josejavirod]

how much hp can a stock clutch handle? Was planning on getting the car tuned but now im having seconds thoughts... wanted to go just to 300hp but I think the stock clutch won't hold?

[brobst]

For 300hp no. Its the torque thats important though.

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[MK6NGT]

My clutch slipped the first time I went into the gas pedal at all the day of getting my stage 1. Instantly slipped.

[Noodle]

Rip ^^^

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[MK6NGT]

^^ that was with only 22k miles on the car as well, boggled my mind.

[Slowgti08]

I actually just went stage 1+ via Unitronic and I have a stock clutch. I was in the same boat as you, afraid of the clutch slipping and eventually said eh F it. I did it and pretty upset I didn't do it earlier. I wouldn't say it's night and day like others call it but it definitely brings the car alive. I love it. My fuel economy increased as I drive mostly highway and passing people is very easy. As long as you don't beat the snot out of it your fine. My brother has a stage 2+ KO4 in his car with a stock clutch and he beats on it daily with no issues. One thing I really love about the unitronic tune feels like OEM plus nice and smooth, you feel it boosting up at about 2500 rpm and after three grand it feels like a bullet. In all it's pay to play as well as how you drive.


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[Slowgti08]

Originally Posted by Slowgti08

I actually just went stage 1+ via Unitronic and I have a stock clutch. I was in the same boat as you, afraid of the clutch slipping and eventually said eh F it. I did it and pretty upset I didn't do it earlier. I wouldn't say it's night and day like others call it but it definitely brings the car alive. I love it. My fuel economy increased as I drive mostly highway and passing people is very easy. As long as you don't beat the snot out of it your fine. My brother has a stage 2+ KO4 in his car with a stock clutch and he beats on it daily with no issues it may slip in higher RPMs but if you baby it and hit it once and a while the clutch should hold up. Don't go launching it and boosting hard as that of course will kill your clutch. One thing I really love about the unitronic tune is that it feels like OEM plus nice and smooth, you feel it boosting up at about 2500 rpm and after three grand it feels like a bullet. In all it's pay to play as well as how you drive.


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[Slowgti08]

Also since you're looking into apr you can also get the stock program and if it gives you that much issues just leave it in stock until you upgrade the clutch. Don't expect to receive the full amount of power on a stock clutch as well as it lasting a long time


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[Slowgti08]

Didn't realize this thread was brought back from the dead my bad 🤦🏽*♂️


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[SnailPower]

Jose, let me ask you. Is are your car new? Did you buy it used? I think that is ultimately the question whether requiring a new clutch after tuning almost immediately will be necessary or not.

I bought my 2014 GTI late 2013. I got APR tuned stage 1 in 2015. Had it for over a year with stage 1. I then went Stage 2 in May of last year. Here I am a year later with Stage 2 High Torque file and my stock clutch is still holding up.

I feel like a lot of people got their car used and tuned it while the previous owner either didn't know how to drive manually or already beat it to sh!t. The tune then sped up the process dramatically of wearing it out.

If you owned your car new and know you can drive manual like a champ, do your typical sprints with the car but not abusing the sh!t out of it, I think the clutch will be fine with Stage 2 even.

[USMC0311]

Test

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[USMC0311]

Now that I can reply, here's my experience. So far. I had an MK5 that was APR Stage 2 with Neuspeed P-Flo intake and short ram, APR 3" downpipe and 3" high flow TBE. The TBE was custom pipes on a cheap muffler. Easy flow.

The MK5, I got it with 49k on the odometer, I went to stage 1 at 55k and stage 2 at 60k. I had to get the clutch replaced around 80k, and it was the original stock clutch.

After some giant mix up, my mechanic ends up replacing what needed to be rated for 350 plus bhp, with a stock clutch on my stage 2 MK5. I ragged the hell out of that clutch to beat the 24k warranty so I could force the mechanic to put in a stage 2 clutch but nope. The stock clutch on my stage 2 MKV stood up to the worst possible driving conditions and was still going strong at stage 2, 35k miles after I had the clutch replaced.

The stock clutch took stage 2 on the MK5. The original stock clutch took 25000 miles of stage 1 and 2 combined, and the stock replacement took at least 24 k of intentional abuse at stage 2 and it took it. If my math is messed up, I suck at math.

Now, I'm driving the MK6 and I just got it flashed to APR stage 1 but am bone stock otherwise. The clutch is the original with 65k miles on it, and I just went stage 1 with my MK6 a week ago.

I am thinking the clutch will need to be replaced around 80 or 85k which is normal for me with GTIs so far but for now, my stock clutch with 65k (that I know of, previous owner may have put in a new clutch I don't know) on my MK6 seems to be holding up with the jump to stage 1.

As long as my tires aren't spinning or hopping, the clutch is grabbing fine. I'm re learning the finer points of getting "to know my car" and it feels like the stage 1 tune on the MK6 is more aggressive in 1st thru 3rd with a lot more low end torque. I don't recall my MK5 being as "aggressive" at stage one.

These cars become different from stage 1 and up and it takes about a week to "re learn" how to drive the car so you can drive aggressively and not beat the hell out of the car.

Now my tires on the other hand...

I should point something out that I've noticed. When I went to stage 1 on my MK6, naturally I launched it a few times because why not?

I will say that my tires need replacing and the wheel hop and wheel spin on my MK6 is pretty bad with stage 1 and if I do a launch where my tires are spinning in most of 1st and most of 2nd, it almost feels like the clutch is slipping when the tires are hopping or spinning. I'm assuming that is because the clutch can't grab when there is no traction but please correct me if I'm wrong.

I can now do the same launches without breaking my tires loose and I've noticed that as long as I have traction, the OEM clutch holds on my stage 1 MK6. I tested the clutch after the low traction launches to see if I was experiencing slipping by driving out of 4th gear, followed by driving out of 6th at 30 mph. No slipping.

Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to add a few things regarding my experience with the stock clutch on 2 different GTIs and throw in some info about my driving habits and what I noticed the stock clutch doing on low traction launches.

The bottom line is this. The stock clutch that came with the GTI will eventually burn out. Some people experience it at 20k, some people get over 80k out of their original clutch. All of the "generic" answers are the right ones.

In MY experience, the stock clutch does okay with stage 1 and stage 2, but it's eventually going to go and when it does, I would talk to the mechanic and let him know that the car is tuned and that you need a clutch that can handle the extra power.

What I'm saying is that just because I've had overall good experiences using the stock clutch at stage 1 and 2 on two different makes of GTI doesn't mean that you will and just because the stock clutch seems to be holding up okay under stage 1 and 2 doesn't mean that it's designed to.

Hopefully I'll be able to get another 15 to 20k out of this clutch before I have to upgrade.

Sorry for the long post. I added as many details as possible in an effort to paint a bright picture on this subject.

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