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Old 01-14-2013, 05:48 PM   #29
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Well Thanks! For the PM Hyde

I will start this off by saying that I am an Aerospace Designer and my car nut friend is an Aerospace Engineer and we work together on various projects. He owns a Cobra GT500 Mustang that he has heavily modified and is producing over 800hp at the wheels. With that being said we feel stupid looking at the MKVI's self adjusting PP. LOL

I ordered the SB Stage 3 drop in disk, because I had the typical 5th gear slippage, even though I read what seemed to be a lot of failure due possibly to an incorrect PP adjustment reset.
We tore my car down (2012 MKVI 20,000 miles) and we just could not get ourselves to put it back together with the new disk. We both felt that the problem was the PP not the disk. The stock disk was still thicker that the replacement and there seemed to be very little wear on it. After spending hours trying to reset the adjustment ring on the stock PP we said F it. I found this tech video on how it works and I just could not get myself to want to reuse it as it did not seem like it could be "reset"
I am returning the drop in disk and I am having Jon at SB next day a cryo'd Stage 2 endurance full kit. It is a new design with an updated spring. I have read a lot of the failure threads and see where people that have had the failures have bastardized their next setup and then still blamed SB. I will be more than happy to share any problems that come up and eat my words if I am wrong. I bought my car on the last week of May 2012 and put on about 3700 miles per month, so I will find out quick how long it will last.

So put me in for a Cryo'd 2013 SB Stage 2 Endurance Silent, maybe add the year to it and see if SB has maybe turned it around.
I am Stage 1 and will go Stage 2 as soon as I break in this clutch that will be installed by weeks end.

Also, I called VW and asked if I could buy a new OEM PP and I was told that they needed my Vin# to make sure I got the correct one. His reason was because there are more than one for the MKVI. I declined to give my vin just in case I was going to be entered into the "who's been modded" list.
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:55 PM   #30
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Good info so far. If anyone has any videos of their newly installed clutch, please post them here:
I am (also) trying to consolidate everything people have mentioned on the forum regarding the clutches. Not so much a list, more information, reviews, and useful threads.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:07 PM   #31
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Great thread.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:09 PM   #32
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I just ordered the fx350! Will report back with a review and impressions when it comes and in and gets installed!

Last edited by Dom; 01-14-2013 at 07:12 PM.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:22 PM   #33
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South Bend Stage 3 drop in here with K04 almost through the recommended break in period. I'm also living in Mexico where it's mostly stop and go traffic in my area. Engagement feels completely OEM with slightly higher engagement. Bowers says it only gets better with use, but I can't really see how. I'll post about how it holds K04 power once I get through breaking it in.

Thanks for the PM Hyde
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:51 PM   #34
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I guess I've been lucky in that I have 22k miles on the stock clutch at stage 1 power levels including ballistic track days on the 100 octane file (i.e. more torque than stage 2 93 octane) - zero slipping whatsoever so far. That being said, I am sort of hoping that my clutch starts slipping so that I can get something better with a nice lightweight SMF to kill this annoying rev hang. That and install a Wavetrac LSD at the same time...
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:54 PM   #35
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Had a SB Stage 3 clutch. It blew during the later part of the summer. On a stage 4 now. Not a huge difference in drivability going to the 4, but getting to the point where I don't like driving the car when there is a lot of traffic(probably due as much to the throttle lag or whatever it is called as it is to the clutch though).
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:17 PM   #36
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Im glad this started, too many smaller threads with broken up info, Ive purchased a FX350 kit using OEM DMFW. PM me, Lou, or JT64 for details on the best deal for CM kits!
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:19 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Dom View Post
I just ordered the fx350! Will report back with a review and impressions when it comes and in and gets installed!
Nice! Hope you talked to Mike Hood...!
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:22 PM   #38
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I about to pull the plug on the cm fx350 w/smf.

Thanks for this thread

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Old 01-14-2013, 07:23 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Mustache rash View Post
I about to pull the plug on the cm fx350 w/smf.

Thanks for this thread
I just did. Clay was super friendly and atleast theres no import duties since its in canada
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:31 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Talguy View Post
Thanks Hyde for letting me know about this thread.

So, I keep jumping back and forth between the FX350 and FX400 full face clutches. Not really sure which one I want. I kind of want something thats nice and grab like the FX400, but at the same time I want something that'll last a while like the 350. There is not a lot of traffic in my area but when I head back to the Philly area to visit my folks its just all stop and go.

Also I would like to go to K04 at sometime soon, so that may make me want to pick up the FX400 for the extra margin of holding strength.
I was like you as far the driving goes, I go through San Francisco a least once a month, But where I live is kinda of out in the country side & I was also going back & forth between the FX350 & full face 400, But in the end ordered up the FX350 (I also will be going K04 once I finish upgrading the suspension & brakes).

Great idea HYDE.
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:42 PM   #41
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Here is my dilemma.

Southbends revised silent stage 2 vs clutchmasters fx350 both with smf

HSTuning price for the Southbend is $1075 ringer for the fx350 is $1066 (basically same)

Which should I go with and why?

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Old 01-14-2013, 08:06 PM   #42
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Okay I've got a lot to say about this thread. HYDE, thanks for pointing me here.

I'm in the process of getting my six-sigma blackbelt certification. Blackbelts are engineers trained in using designed experimentation to draw meaningful conclusions. So I'm on the market for a clutch, which means I'm naturally interested, but the subject really has my interest piqued because I haven't seen a lot of hard, substantial work behind the clutch choices people are making. I'm sure there's a lot of work from the manufacturing end to make a passable product, but the consumer's demands are what will really drive the balance between cost, comfort, and ultimately power holding capabilities. The manufacturers really just want to sell you a kit. So ultimately it's up to us to groupthink our requirements.

(I know it sounds like I'm being harsh on the manufacturers and vendors, but all I'm saying is that we the customers need to better understand our options and what they'll do to the cost, comfort and power holding capabilities. The fact that a manufacurer has a kit shouldn't be the only reason we buy it)

The first thing you learn in six sigma is Y = g(y) + N = f(x) + N. In words, Y is the goal. In our case, the three goals are cost, comfort and power holding capabilities. I'd say reliability, but you'll see in a bit why it can't be a goal. y's are the measurable outputs of a system, and x's are the controllable inputs. N is noise. Anything you know is a factor that affects your y's or your Y's but you know you can't control are your N's. Put into words, that equation means "my desired goal is a sum of measurable outputs that can be attained as a function of my system's inputs, plus the uncontrollable system noises." See it? (The problem with reliability is that there are no x's we can manage, no levers we can play with that can be measured as a y, an output. You could measure time or mileage, but it's not going to be helpful in the near-term for building this picture.)

So what are our x's? Kit makeup is a big one, of course. I personally believe that the 80 degrees or so of travel afforded by the DMFW is going to do a much better job at controlling gear chatter than a sprung disk with just 10 degrees of travel (or so. I don't know either's real travel angles). But we've got that covered in the OP for the most part, though we should definitely be separating SB's new Exedy clutches from the old suppliers.

Temperature is a huge factor that's not being listed - clutches need thermal cycles for break-in and power holding. Probably comfort, but that's just a guess. So we need a way to log climate here. I live in Michigan so I'll see an average of around 78 in the summer and 34 in the winter. I'd be 78/34, for example.

Our y's are difficult to measure. But I think that if we can ask the right questions of some of these owners, we could draw meaningful conclusions out of the answers (which, ultimately, would be numbers for HYDE and the rest of us to draw conclusions from). The key is asking the right questions so that the answers are based less on subjective opinion and "I bought that so it must be the best" mentality.

Take sound, for example. Can you hear the clutch chatter over vent fan setting 1? 2? 3? 4? How about with AC on? How about gear chatter? Gear chatter with AC on? This is just an example of a way to minimize subjectivity from sound.

For engagement, I hear a lot of people talking about stiffness as a percentage of stock (15% greater, for example), which while being pretty damn subjective, I can't really argue with because I don't have a better idea atm!

That brings up subjective comparisons. In six sigma you're taught never to trust subjectivity even if it is a detailed comparison, but here with the limited resources we have it's difficult to do without. If you have first hand back-to-back experiences with different clutches, speak up! Just try not to exaggerate the differences you feel, please.

What's so great about this thread is that HYDE is a statistician, so he's prepared to bring meaning out of numbers from populations of data. Blackbelts do this by learning their system ahead of time and designing their experiments so that the numbers validate theories. I want to help by asking the right questions so that someone stumbling on this thread can say, "I want comfort with enough capability to hold Stage 2" and HYDE can present them with their options.

tl;dr: Ask the right questions so that we can draw meaningful conclusions from the data. Also, this thread is the tits. (.)(.)
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