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Can the dealer know about ECU mod?
- Thread starter donjuandl
- Start date
Diego Armando
Go Kart Champion
In one word.. no.
But Arin can give you a technical explanation of why not.
But Arin can give you a technical explanation of why not.
waffleman
Ready to race!
if the car with APR is in "stock" mode - does pushing randomly the button used to enter your code result in anything to show up on the dash? IE, a blinking light or something else? If so, the dealer could just push the buttons, see a blinking light or something, and know the car was chipped.
Or do you enter the code in totally blind fashion so that there is no evidence on the dash of what the numbers are as you put your code in?
Or do you enter the code in totally blind fashion so that there is no evidence on the dash of what the numbers are as you put your code in?
I am not chipped, but I believe this is the case. See APR's vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOEiFbSHKqk&feature=player_embedded
Looks like the lights on the tachometer don't go nuts until you finish entering the security code that only you know.
No lights until you enter the correct code.
My guess is if they really want to know (you blew up a turbo/engine in the first 15k and things look a bit fishy), they can find out. But it's likely time consuming and requires specialized equipment, so it's unlikely.
That said - realize that if they do ask you if you've modded the ECU and you lie, and they find you out, you're no longer just talking losing warranty - you're talking possible criminal charges. So don't think it will all be hunky dory just because you can "hide" it! Realize the consequences of your actions.
I'm waiting for ~10-15k miles before flashing just to shake out any drivetrain issues before I flash. Rather be safe than sorry...
My guess is if they really want to know (you blew up a turbo/engine in the first 15k and things look a bit fishy), they can find out. But it's likely time consuming and requires specialized equipment, so it's unlikely.
That said - realize that if they do ask you if you've modded the ECU and you lie, and they find you out, you're no longer just talking losing warranty - you're talking possible criminal charges. So don't think it will all be hunky dory just because you can "hide" it! Realize the consequences of your actions.
I'm waiting for ~10-15k miles before flashing just to shake out any drivetrain issues before I flash. Rather be safe than sorry...
Carbon Blir
Ready to race!
Criminal for what.... lieing to a dealership??? yeah right
customer: my windows dont role up...
dealer: are you chipped
customer: no
dealer finds out ..... they call the cops????? NO
customer: my windows dont role up...
dealer: are you chipped
customer: no
dealer finds out ..... they call the cops????? NO
Carbon Blir
Ready to race!
Yes a dealer can find out....
If you do not get the security lock out a dealer can find it by dicking around with the Cruise stick
If you do not get the security lock out a dealer can find it by dicking around with the Cruise stick
Mk6golfer
Ready to race!
I'm pretty sure they'd only question you if its a powertrain-related issue.
Everything besides drivetrain should be unaffected- but yeah, don't expect to get a new turbo + engine when yours grenades (not that it's at all likely to happen, just saying). Although since you're in Canada, the law IS different!
As for what's illegal about that - you really don't see what's illegal about you lying in such a way as to scam a company out of thousands of dollars in parts and service? It's fraud - the warranty is a contract, and you're misrepresenting your car's condition in order to have a material gain.
It would be like if you crashed your car on the track, had it towed to the side of a road somewhere, then called your insurance and said a deer ran in front of you wherever you are now. You're misrepresenting the conditions of damage in order to get a payout. (not that people don't do this too - but it doesn't make it any more legal)
As for what's illegal about that - you really don't see what's illegal about you lying in such a way as to scam a company out of thousands of dollars in parts and service? It's fraud - the warranty is a contract, and you're misrepresenting your car's condition in order to have a material gain.
It would be like if you crashed your car on the track, had it towed to the side of a road somewhere, then called your insurance and said a deer ran in front of you wherever you are now. You're misrepresenting the conditions of damage in order to get a payout. (not that people don't do this too - but it doesn't make it any more legal)
iHeartEuro
Passed Driver's Ed
A friend of mine had a REVO chip on his MKV GTi... at some point something happened to the engine, sorry I don't remember what, it wasn't because of the chip though... Anyways, the dealership said it wasn't covered because the car was chipped - after 2 or 3 hours they still couldn't prove he actually chipped it.
I had Unitronic on my MKV 2.5L - They never detected it either, although I never had any engine issues. I mean a simple VAG-COM run will not tell them the ECU is modded...
You first said it was illegal to lie about a reflashed ECU -- which it's not.
Now you've contrived a hypothetical situation where the dealer does extensive warranty service on a reflashed car, which you believe was necessary ONLY because of the reflash.
Has such a situation ever been reliably reported -- that a mere reflash WAS SOLELY RESPONSIBLE for such extensive damage?
If it were ALLEGED, has any similar STOCK vehicle -- anywhere on earth -- ever had a similar problem? If yes, you can't say the problem was caused by the reflash. Determining this requires the dealer query the manufacturer's worldwide service database. They often don't have access to this, so it involves a special procedure. The dealer cannot not go simply from his local experience, which entails only a tiny fraction of vehicles made.
The one most potentially at legal and criminal risk here is NOT the vehicle owner, it is the dealer and manufacturer.
Imagine the dealer denies warranty service on the brakes because of reflash. His reasoning is the increased hp combined with ESP/XDS cross braking damaged them.
Then immediately afterward your wife dies in a crash caused by brake failure. In the ensuing legal investigation it turns out the dealer did not do due dilligence and query the worldwide manufacturer database, and that other stock vehicles have had similar problems. He denied service without good reason, and now someone is dead. He and the parent company now face a more serious situation than warranty fraud.
It's true there are cases where a heavily-modified car damages a drivetrain component, and it seems likely related to the extensive mods. Surreptitiously seeking warranty coverage for that would be wrong.
However be advised that dealer that refuses warranty service without doing his homework incurs signficant risk of legal and personal liability.
sweetsandman
Ready to race!
If they can prove that your flash caused say...a shattered lifter...or a blown fuel injector...or a blown turbo...and you lied about a flash...they probably won't take you to court over it...they'll just make you pay for the damages. Would it be considered fraud? by all means...yes. However...if they're going to do some deep research to find out if you are flashed...they are going to do it BEFORE they do the work to the damaged part. And if they do find a flash and you lied about it...they'll probably make you pay for the "investigation" work...and then either tell you to pay for the repair or GTFO basically...They are not going to file a suit...that is more hassel than any dealership or VW wants to go through I'm certain.
Moral of the story...if you're that worried about having to pay for potential damages caused by the aftermarket tune...don't mod your damn car. I do my own tuning of my car with a program called HPTuners...and I'm fully aware that if I blow my turbo or cause some sort of damage to my engine...they probably won't find the tune...but I'll man up and let them know ahead of time that it's tuned and if they can prove that my tune caused the damage...then I will pay for my damaged part because...that's a risk I'm willing to take for more power.
Moral of the story...if you're that worried about having to pay for potential damages caused by the aftermarket tune...don't mod your damn car. I do my own tuning of my car with a program called HPTuners...and I'm fully aware that if I blow my turbo or cause some sort of damage to my engine...they probably won't find the tune...but I'll man up and let them know ahead of time that it's tuned and if they can prove that my tune caused the damage...then I will pay for my damaged part because...that's a risk I'm willing to take for more power.
DawnsKayBug1
Go Kart Champion
LULZ lieing to the dealership...
If there was 1 company I would lie to/"fraud" and not lose any sleep it would be a car dealership. They are as dishonest as they get
If there was 1 company I would lie to/"fraud" and not lose any sleep it would be a car dealership. They are as dishonest as they get
Arin@APR
GOLFMK7 Official Sponsor
When you put the car into 'Security Lockout Mode' it completely disables any flashing lights. There is no indication you are entering a code. You just enter the code and if the code was the correct code, the lights will blink to tell you it was a success. BTW, you chose the code. It's just like entering a code into a nintendo game at the beginning. You only know you can enter a code once it's actually entered correctly.
To set the record straight, scan tools, dealership tools, and all that sorts stuff are not able to simply 'detect' chipped ECU's.