Final decision on brakes for Track Day

[troyguitar]

Well my track weekend is quickly approaching and I've mostly settled on my (damn expensive to me) setup:

Porterfield R4 pads front+rear $320
decent-ish jack and 4 jack stands $150
Brake bleeding tools $75
heat reflective tape $20
remove dust shields $free

I just need to decide on fluid: With over $1000 invested in the weekend (brake stuff plus 3-day entry fee) I kind of feel like I should just say fuck it and get the Castrol SRF for $75 versus skimping and going with ATE for $15. I'm thinking the chances of boiling the ATE stuff are slim but non-zero whereas there should be no way to boil the SRF. Any thoughts?

 

[RacingManiac]

What tires will you be driving on? Stock tires? I think you could be quite safe sticking with ATE. Considering both would probably require flushing within a year, you don't need really to go with SRF....

I got my brake bleeding tool, its a friend, plus an empty water bottle and 1/4" airline....

 

[staynhome29]

After the track day this week I feel that with the uprated pads, the car doesn't lack outright "stopping power". The car will stop, everytime going into a turn. The issue I guess is really the pedal feel. The pedal travel on this car is just long, which translate to really not confidence inspiring feel. I think next season I'll use some other fluid than the stock one to see if that helps a bit.

Probably going to remove the dust shield and get some different disc next season also...

You need to drive faster to experience brake fade LOL.

It's rather scary. Pedal to the floor and car is barely stopping. It's not even about mushy pedal. It's pedal to the floor and nothing happens. That is brake fade. Scary stuff.

Solution is to run off in a safe spot in a straight line. Don't try to save the car. Just go straight and slow the car down.

 

[RacingManiac]

You need to drive faster to experience brake fade LOL.

It's rather scary. Pedal to the floor and car is barely stopping. It's not even about mushy pedal. It's pedal to the floor and nothing happens. That is brake fade. Scary stuff.

Solution is to run off in a safe spot in a straight line. Don't try to save the car. Just go straight and slow the car down.

I know what it is, and I have no plan of experiencing it. I am not doing track day to compete with anyone or win anything(nor do you win anything), so no need to lap after lap of 9/10 or 10/10 pace(mine or car's). I drive hard for a few laps, backs off a few laps, hard for few laps. 20 mins and session is over. You have nothing to win, everything to lose as I often have to drive another 2-3 hours minimum to go home.

I save all the real hard driving for autocrosses...where consequences is less dire and less likely to have real big problem.

 

[troyguitar]

What tires will you be driving on? Stock tires? I think you could be quite safe sticking with ATE. Considering both would probably require flushing within a year, you don't need really to go with SRF....

I got my brake bleeding tool, its a friend, plus an empty water bottle and 1/4" airline....

Stock tires but I'm thinking that makes it worse on the brakes. I'll have to slow even more for corners because the tires can't handle as much speed.

I don't have friends so I need the tools :lol: (actually quite serious, moved 500 miles to here a few months ago and I don't know anyone at all)

 

[Gunkata]

you can have brake fade w/o the pedal going to the floor.... that's when your brakes are "gone", lol.

 

[RacingManiac]

Stress in the brake system is limited by the tire, you can't stop faster than your tire have traction. More grip means you are your brake is better able to stop the car, but at that same token it means more energy is pass to your braking system for the discs to dissipate. Energy that otherwise would be dissipated by your tire scrubbing...Which is why for people going to R-Comp will need stronger brake as you are more likely to overwhelm your braking system...

 

[Gunkata]

yeah, i dont really understand what Troy is trying to do or what his experience is...

 

[RacingManiac]

you can have brake fade w/o the pedal going to the floor.... that's when your brakes are "gone", lol.

Fluid fade is when your pedal goes to the floor, since the fluid is boiling, you introduce compressible gas in the hydraulic system, you pedal is just squeezing the bubbles as opposed to transfering hydraulic pressure to the system.

If you have pad fade, typically because your pad over heats and material breaks down and out-gasses, your pads basically no longer grabs onto the rotor and you can have a stiff pedal and nothing happens....

 

[troyguitar]

yeah, i dont really understand what Troy is trying to do or what his experience is...

And I don't understand what you guys are trying to do by not driving at 100% or taking lap times when you're on the track. Different strokes.

 

[RacingManiac]

And I don't understand what you guys are trying to do by not driving at 100% or taking lap times when you're on the track. Different strokes.

You can do whatever you want to do. Not being able to drive home or drive to work on Monday is not on my list of things I want to do....If I have a track car prep for it then my perspective might be different...

If someone pays you to drive your car as fast as you can and you win something at the end by being faster than that next guy in a Corvette, then sure, by all means for for it. If HPDE is meant to be a race they would be keeping time and rank you and give out a prize or something.

At the same token too, people who likes to go all out on track days also don't skimp on tires or brake...

 

[Gunkata]

And I don't understand what you guys are trying to do by not driving at 100% or taking lap times when you're on the track. Different strokes.

Typically DD cars with some mods, usually have a lien on them = HPDE's / owner wants to take home in one piece, driving 7-8/10's.

Driving 100% or 10/10ths on track w/ timed laps / in competitions = track car/just about never stock by any means, no loan, ok to crash.

And that's pretty much how it goes.

 

[Gunkata]

Fluid fade is when your pedal goes to the floor, since the fluid is boiling, you introduce compressible gas in the hydraulic system, you pedal is just squeezing the bubbles as opposed to transfering hydraulic pressure to the system.

If you have pad fade, typically because your pad over heats and material breaks down and out-gasses, your pads basically no longer grabs onto the rotor and you can have a stiff pedal and nothing happens....

Thanks for educating me on that, Andrew

 

[troyguitar]

This is a timed event with rankings, for me it is meant to be an initial evaluation for the GTI to see if I feel it's worth spending more money on versus just starting with a better car, is that so fucking hard to understand?

Beyond that, brake pads and fluid are open to whatever choice you want in the rules whereas running better tires makes one more likely to get bumped to a faster class. There is a reason I didn't buy wheels and tires yet beyond just not wanting to spend $2k+ on a car I'm not sure will ever see the track again. I'd like to establish a baseline before doing any mods which cost points for classing purposes.

 

[RacingManiac]

Well then have fun. Hope you do well. You are still driving the car back at the end of the day, and your tire(not just stock tire, but just about any tire thats not R-comp/slicks) will only have about the first couple of lap to do its best time. So you can push 10/10 the whole time you are on track, but your best time will likely be early in each session, so again, not much to be gained from driving all out all the time. Unless ALL of your laps count...in which case you probably still want to manage the pace. The less aggressive the tire the more likely they'll get greasy and lose grip faster, they also get hot faster...

To reiterate the point before the derailed discussion, stock tire should mean less stress on your braking system. And TBH I still don't think SRF is needed.