Final Timing Spec?

[bbsxer]

I just got a COBB Accessport for my 2012 gti and I’m seeing something odd. I have searched everywhere for an answer to this but there is very little talk about “final timing” figures. From what I’ve seen, I shouldn’t be seeing anything more than like 3-4° of timing, on my accessport I idle at 5-6° and while I’m driving it can go anywhere from -30 to 40°. I actually had done the timing chain about a year ago but it was done using a chinese kit that my mechanic told me to buy and at the time I didn’t know any better. I’ve been driving it hard like this for a long time without any issues rattles or anything. From what people have said, my chain should be long gone. How is it not? and am I correct that this is very bad and I need a new timing chain? Maybe my AP is just showing me completely wrong figures?
Any feedback will be greatly appreciated!

 

[BudgetPhoenix]

I think you are getting that confused with cam phase adjustment which you check in engine block 93 in vcds/obdeleven. That's the one that's used for timing chain stretch diagnosis. Usually -4 degrees or less should be cause for concern

 

[bbsxer]

I think you are getting that confused with cam phase adjustment which you check in engine block 93 in vcds/obdeleven. That's the one that's used for timing chain stretch diagnosis. Usually -4 degrees or less should be cause for concern

I’m aware that people also use VCDS to check but I thought the Final Timing monitor on the AP measured the same thing?

 

[BudgetPhoenix]

Final timing is totally different than the cam phase adjustment

 

[bbsxer]

Oh okay, sorry for my mistake. Would those figures be okay then or would you not be able to know just by looking at it?

 

[Thumper]

Oh okay, sorry for my mistake. Would those figures be okay then or would you not be able to know just by looking at it?

That depends on what you are asking.

I am not familiar with the COBB but my guess is the "final timing" is just that, the actual timing of the ignition spark BTDC after all adjustments because I really doubt it is pulling -30 degrees of ignition.

So if you are still concerned about the stretch of the chain itself, you can't tell anything by those numbers, you need to go check the phase adjustment value.

If you want to know how your tune is running and other factors you can use final timing. Final timing tells you how the engine is running as far as the fueling and spark with the tune (or no tune if it's stock). Final timing refers to the ignition spark based on TDC, spark too soon and the combustion happens before the piston reaches the top of it's movement and causes knock as it is forced backwards against the rotation. Spark too late and you lose power because the volume of the combustion chamber is too large (piston farther from the head) and you get incomplete combustion as well. The ECU will adjust for knock up to a certain point until it is out of adjustment range, then you will hear the knocks and then very soon without fixing it you will buy a new engine. So even if you hear no knocks there might still be power loss or an issue you can find with the timing pull or retardation values as this difference from the factory (or tune) is just the computer noticing knocks and trying to correct.

To figure out retardation (or advance) from the final numbers you would need to know the base setting first and then subtract.....or add.....damn negative numbers lol, you know find the difference.

 

[bbsxer]

That depends on what you are asking.

I am not familiar with the COBB but my guess is the "final timing" is just that, the actual timing of the ignition spark BTDC after all adjustments because I really doubt it is pulling -30 degrees of ignition.

So if you are still concerned about the stretch of the chain itself, you can't tell anything by those numbers, you need to go check the phase adjustment value.

If you want to know how your tune is running and other factors you can use final timing. Final timing tells you how the engine is running as far as the fueling and spark with the tune (or no tune if it's stock). Final timing refers to the ignition spark based on TDC, spark too soon and the combustion happens before the piston reaches the top of it's movement and causes knock as it is forced backwards against the rotation. Spark too late and you lose power because the volume of the combustion chamber is too large (piston farther from the head) and you get incomplete combustion as well. The ECU will adjust for knock up to a certain point until it is out of adjustment range, then you will hear the knocks and then very soon without fixing it you will buy a new engine. So even if you hear no knocks there might still be power loss or an issue you can find with the timing pull or retardation values as this difference from the factory (or tune) is just the computer noticing knocks and trying to correct.

To figure out retardation (or advance) from the final numbers you would need to know the base setting first and then subtract.....or add.....damn negative numbers lol, you know find the difference.

Thank you so much. That's very helpful for me to know