Tuning and Coil Pack upgrade relationship?

[lilonespaz]

Also i second putting all the R8 coils in and leaving 1 or 2 of the "good" old ones in the trunk as back ups.

 

[blackgold]

I tuned my car to stage one and within 10 minutes of the test drive blew multiple coilpacks and had to replace them with red tops...

 

[Grey2012]

I had my car tuned about a month ago, today a coil went out on me and I had to drive with the 4 ways on going 30 km/hr to my local shop. Replaced all four with R8 red tops, couldn't believe the difference and how smooth the car runs now! Almost thought they detuned it at first, I think my coils may have been causing minor misfiring that didn't throw a code until today when it failed miserably. Glad it's all fixed now, and wouldn't suggest anything other than the red tops!

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[Bretzy1990]

I had a coil go out as well, about a month after an Apr stage 1 tune. Just replaces with red top coils and NGK plugs. Runs much smoother at idle for sure. Runs good throughout power band as well.

 

[ModdedEuros]

t a couple places sell the real OEM red tops.

We sell the real OEM coil packs. By themselves or in kits

https://www.moddedeuros.com/volkswagen/golf-gti/mk6-10-13/engine-parts/ignition

 

[2012TP]

We sell the real OEM coil packs. By themselves or in kits

https://www.moddedeuros.com/volkswagen/golf-gti/mk6-10-13/engine-parts/ignition

Just grabbed a set.

I've been APR tuned on stock coil packs for a while now without any issues. Figured it can't hurt to have these on hand

 

[ThatVWGuy]

We sell the real OEM coil packs. By themselves or in kits

https://www.moddedeuros.com/volkswagen/golf-gti/mk6-10-13/engine-parts/ignition

This is what I did to my car (R8's and plugs at the same time) after I blew my second coil pack after being tuned. If you are tuned and haven't blown a coil yet, do yourself a favor and just go ahead and upgrade. Sure you can limp back home if you aren't too far away when you blow a coil pack, but it isn't any fun.

 

[carmaster22]

FWIW

I had a stock coil pack fail on me a few months ago, about a year after I purchased my car (65K miles at the time). I was 100% stock at the time.

I had planned on getting new plugs and the R8 coil packs but was going to do it once I started modding. The failed stock coil pack made it so this was my first "mod" LOL

 

[EJBGTIVI]

I put plenty of use through the original coil packs, both stock & tuned, without a problem.

Guess I'm in the minority...

I'm still on my stock coils with Stage 1 tune since 2012 no problems. Still on my stock water pump too

 

[changchewsoon]

Hi,

My R is currently running on stock coils since the day it left the factory and hasn't given me any problems yet so far.

However, I want to share my experience regarding the aftermarket coils for my other car.

It is a Toyota Yaris sedan with a built engine running Owens GTX3071R turbo.

The car was experiencing torque dip with the stock coils pass 4,000 rpm on the dyno and I swapped in a set of coils from Okada Projects.

We noticed a difference when we did another pull on the dyno.

 

[thatspsychotic]

Yeap, I'm trying to understand that reason why. I'm thinking them going bad has nothing to do with being tuned... they just go bad since they suck!

Still didn't see an engineering answer for this so I'll give it a try. It's not so much that the ECU is somehow sending a different signal, it's more about the conditions in the combustion chamber.

Really briefly, a coil pack is literally a coil of wire with a bunch of current passing through it (an inductor), through a transistor or some other kind of semiconductor switch. The spark plug gap is in parallel with this switch. When the ECU tells the coil pack to fire, the switch opens, so current is no longer able to flow through it. However, the inductor basically says "there is current flowing through me, and you can't instantaneously stop current from flowing through me, and I will build up a huge voltage across me until something is able to carry this current." This huge voltage then builds up and appears across the spark plug gap, eventually causing electrical breakdown of whatever is in between the electrodes on the spark plug, causing the arc to carry current as the spark.

From my understanding, when you're tuned or have a turbo upgrade, the higher pressure, temperature, and mass of fuel and gasses in the combustion chamber may require more voltage to initiate the spark across the electrodes of the spark plug, and consume more energy to initiate the combustion process of the greater amount of fuel/air near the spark plug.

The weaker stock coils may either 1.) fail to provide sufficient voltage initiate the spark (misfire), 2.) take more time to build up the voltage needed to initiate the spark (effectively retarding the ignition timing, causing power loss), and/or 3.) not be able to ignite enough of the gas mixture due to lower spark energy (power loss and/or misfire).

This higher voltage required to initiate the spark also places greater electrical stress on the components inside the coil pack, so even if the stock coil is able to keep up and not misfire, it may still fail due to the higher voltages increasing the strain on the semiconductor switch and electrical insulation inside the coil.

This is also a reason why tuned cars are recommended to run a smaller spark plug gap. When the gap is smaller, less voltage is required to initiate the spark so it can occur more quickly, and for a given amount of spark energy, the energy density in the spark is higher allowing it to more reliably initiate combustion as intended.

 

[2012TP]

I'm still on my stock coils with Stage 1 tune since 2012 no problems. Still on my stock water pump too

Same, although I had the pump done on recall while the car was the dealer.

Guess we're lucky here. Timing tensioner will probably shit the bed soon now lol

 

[FF_animal]

I read somewhere that the R coils don't blow out like the gti and gli coils.


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[theclutch]

Still didn't see an engineering answer for this so I'll give it a try. It's not so much that the ECU is somehow sending a different signal, it's more about the conditions in the combustion chamber.

Really briefly, a coil pack is literally a coil of wire with a bunch of current passing through it (an inductor), through a transistor or some other kind of semiconductor switch. The spark plug gap is in parallel with this switch. When the ECU tells the coil pack to fire, the switch opens, so current is no longer able to flow through it. However, the inductor basically says "there is current flowing through me, and you can't instantaneously stop current from flowing through me, and I will build up a huge voltage across me until something is able to carry this current." This huge voltage then builds up and appears across the spark plug gap, eventually causing electrical breakdown of whatever is in between the electrodes on the spark plug, causing the arc to carry current as the spark.

From my understanding, when you're tuned or have a turbo upgrade, the higher pressure, temperature, and mass of fuel and gasses in the combustion chamber may require more voltage to initiate the spark across the electrodes of the spark plug, and consume more energy to initiate the combustion process of the greater amount of fuel/air near the spark plug.

The weaker stock coils may either 1.) fail to provide sufficient voltage initiate the spark (misfire), 2.) take more time to build up the voltage needed to initiate the spark (effectively retarding the ignition timing, causing power loss), and/or 3.) not be able to ignite enough of the gas mixture due to lower spark energy (power loss and/or misfire).

This higher voltage required to initiate the spark also places greater electrical stress on the components inside the coil pack, so even if the stock coil is able to keep up and not misfire, it may still fail due to the higher voltages increasing the strain on the semiconductor switch and electrical insulation inside the coil.

This is also a reason why tuned cars are recommended to run a smaller spark plug gap. When the gap is smaller, less voltage is required to initiate the spark so it can occur more quickly, and for a given amount of spark energy, the energy density in the spark is higher allowing it to more reliably initiate combustion as intended.

Thanks for providing an engineering answer to my question!

What you wrote actually makes a lot of sense. The only thing that would break it down (and perhaps you will have an explanation) is that if the coil pack couldn't provide the voltage due to the higher chamber pressures (more boost), higher temp, higher mass/air, etc, then why is it when I go back to the stock tune, the coil packs still failed to fire? I.e. - it actually broke. I'm actually starting to think that the tune *does* tell the coil pack to "fire harder" perhaps firing harder outside of their standard firing specifications... thus, it blows. OR the standard coil packs simply suck and break down over time.

One other thing to note is that I don't think I ever come across anyone selling the coil packs stating that "this is a must for tuned cars" (someone please correct me if I'm wrong here). I've only seen them stating "once the stock coil packs blow, replace them with these", without stating the reason as to why they blew in the first place.

I swear to all of you, as soon as I get a definitive answer to this, I will post it!

 

[carmaster22]

OR the standard coil packs simply suck and break down over time.

As noted in my post above, my car was 100% stock and blew a coil pack. It's probably just a case of VW trying to balance reliability and cost of a specific part and failing with the reliability. Similar to how the water pump and timing chain tensioners fail (speculation on my part).