Tony48
Go Kart Champion
Thanks for the knowledge. Much appreciated :w00t:
6
Sub frame kits-inserts/new bolts/etc
- Thread starter MK6NGT
- Start date
Seems I got distracted and forgot to include my conclusion.
While bronze is technically the best material for the application (and even that still corrodes a bit - mine are a nice sickly brownish green color now), I doubt there's much of a real world difference between any of them.
Tyrol are the ones who came up with the design originally, and that's worth something to me (also, I bought them back when the only other options were almost as expensive). But if you can't justify $225 for that over the ECS or CTS kits at ~$100, I totally get that and those kits should work just as well.
While bronze is technically the best material for the application (and even that still corrodes a bit - mine are a nice sickly brownish green color now), I doubt there's much of a real world difference between any of them.
Tyrol are the ones who came up with the design originally, and that's worth something to me (also, I bought them back when the only other options were almost as expensive). But if you can't justify $225 for that over the ECS or CTS kits at ~$100, I totally get that and those kits should work just as well.
thatspsychotic
Ready to race!
I went with the Tyrol kit this year partly because they were the original developers of the solution, partly because of the materials choice, and partly because they made it the easiest to include the ARP and OEM replacement bolts. I wanted to change out all the bolts, and the package made it easy and worth the price of convenience.
The subframe collars and the engine/trans mounts made a pretty big difference in how the car feels on the road, in a positive way. Can't wait to replace the struts next spring.
thatspsychotic
Ready to race!
Materials choice makes another difference beyond just galvanic corrosion.
I agree that the primary purpose of the subframe collars is to fill the voids to provide a tighter coupling between the subframe and the chassis. However, the softness of the collars does make a secondary difference in terms of how well coupled the subframe and frame will be. Ideally, the collars should be a softer material than both surfaces that they are joining together. This way, any surface roughness or dimensional difference between the collars and the voids they are filling (as well as the "flat surfaces" where the collars touch the subframe and frame) will cause the collar to deform into those voids when torqued down, providing an even more solid connection.
The stainless steel collars are almost certainly harder than the aluminum subframe, and the ECS/CTS kits with aluminum collars will probably deform to a degree. The bronze collars are definitely softer than aluminum and will deform into the surface roughness of the mating surfaces. Granted, it is probably a marginal difference in this application, but something to consider.
MK6NGT
Ready to race!
So much great and technical information here. Thanks a ton. I feel like I should have done this two months ago as I just had four new tires and an alignment done but I may pop for the ecs kit then get another alignment next time I need to rotate the tires.
Really though, thanks a ton for the feedback.
Really though, thanks a ton for the feedback.
MrFancypants
Autocross Champion
What are your thoughts on the value of the ARP bolts?
It looks as though the primary feature that ups the price on these kits are those bolts.
snobrdrdan
former GTI owner
They're nice
Tyrol also machines the head of (4 of) the collars to locate/center & recess the flange on the bolt as well for 100% locked down fitment (IMO)
There's nothing magical about them, they're most likely just hardened 301 stainless*. But, that's an expensive bolt to make to begin with, and the fact that these are custom made for these kits in small volumes really drives the price up. The ARP branding definitely helps sell the kit - "ARP bolts included" is a lot more concise and relatable to most car guys than industry jargon.
*I don't know for sure that's what they are, but that's what ARP's published mechanical properties line up most closely with.
tkelly0727
Ready to race!
i went with the tyrolsport kit mostly because or the reputation and the so many positive reviews and they were on sale when i got them. still havn't installed them yet because im trying to decide if i should get a front sway bar and replace the upper subframe mount, due to the wear and tear (114K)
postbox
New member
Any recommendations on 110mm bolts? I have 034 collar kit (works great!) but will be dropping my subframe soon and would like to replace 4 90mm and 2 110mm bolts which came with the kit.
I'm thinking of buying two N10141003 12x1.5x110 which are meant for our lower control arms. Torque specs for those match specs for those longer subframe bolts on the rear.
Original (black) bolt partnumber is WHT000431A and I don't want to buy it since all collar kits come with bolt design different from this one.
Tyrolsport kits seems to feature ARP bolts but I can't find them.
I'm thinking of buying two N10141003 12x1.5x110 which are meant for our lower control arms. Torque specs for those match specs for those longer subframe bolts on the rear.
Original (black) bolt partnumber is WHT000431A and I don't want to buy it since all collar kits come with bolt design different from this one.
Tyrolsport kits seems to feature ARP bolts but I can't find them.
Attachments
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N10141003 110mm LCA bolt.jpeg -
WHT000431A 110mm bolt OEM.jpg
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Hey, how did those 2 replacement bolts work? Do you by chance have a part number for the 4 90mm bolts? I am getting conflicting numbers.
I don't have a choice, i'm changing the dmf on dsg, along with having to replace the dogbone mounts in the subframe and new sway bar bushings. Dropping the subframe, makes it all much easier. I have the Tyrolsport collar kit, but i can't find replacement ARP bolts anywhere, and getting them from Tyrolsport themselves, is just too expensive. Thanks.
Wascally Wabbit1
Drag Racing Champion
Check out AllensFasteners.com
They sell a lot of ARP bolt sizes individually. ARP bolts aren't cheap but they are really nice.
I have the kit with ARP bolts waiting to go in as well.
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