The Si May be a Contender...

maxtdi said:

400whp in a nearly stock honda 4 banger? :laugh: That's a good one.

putting down 200-250 after the turbo etc is about all one should do before starting to blow shit up. In either the 1.8 or 2.0. The "new" 2.4 can probably handle closer to 300 but no where near 400.

Besides WTF can you do with 400 wrong wheel drive HP?

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Here's the link...

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/10/24/fox-marketing-prepping-a-special-honda-civic-si-for-sema/

I agree 400+ hp is pointless in a wrong wheel drive car, but what is significant is they are showing that the internals of the Honda engine is so strong that it can handle a big EFR turbo for 100,000 miles... Yah it would be good to back it up with durability testing... But if the engine is as overbuilt as they say it is... This would be a cheaper route as many know the route to 400+ hp builds on the GTI recommends reinforced bottom end with at the very least forged rods.

Heck I'm finding this out the hard way on my car with 20,000 miles on a Ko4 kit and tons of track days my engine has sprung a head gasket leak and who knows what more horrors lie inside and that's with just 300 whp.

Well you've probably overheated your engine due to high oil temps etc. Remember with a K04 you're putting out 50% extra HP in an engine designed for 200. And you took it to a track and flogged the shit out of it. There is a lot of waste heat that is not being addressed. You need a least a larger inter-cooler, oil cooler, transmission cooler etc.

You can't simply up the power to the wazzoo and not expect shit to break. Same as with the civic, even if the engine can handle it, the half shafts, transmission/clutch etc won't.

When it comes to doubling or tripping a cars power in this case, its almost always cheaper to just get the faster car say audi S4 vs the civic Si and call it a day vs spending 1000s of dollars on mods that are worthless at the end of the day and causing reliability nightmares.

They need a factory turbo charger for the civic... If they just use the RDX k24 motor with the turbo set they would sell more cvic than ever... I'll go back to Honda if they do that lol

2.4 + 7k redline + lacking Vtech feel = FAIL!

maxtdi said:

Well you've probably overheated your engine due to high oil temps etc. Remember with a K04 you're putting out 50% extra HP in an engine designed for 200. And you took it to a track and flogged the shit out of it. There is a lot of waste heat that is not being addressed. You need a least a larger inter-cooler, oil cooler, transmission cooler etc.

You can't simply up the power to the wazzoo and not expect shit to break. Same as with the civic, even if the engine can handle it, the half shafts, transmission/clutch etc won't.

When it comes to doubling or tripping a cars power in this case, its almost always cheaper to just get the faster car say audi S4 vs the civic Si and call it a day vs spending 1000s of dollars on mods that are worthless at the end of the day and causing reliability nightmares.

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Except all the big tuners have told me when I approach them, none of our customers cars have that problem, we have shop cars that pull 400+ hp dyno's with no issues (but none flog on the track like it's meant to be flogged), we don't think there is a market for an oil cooler kit, and most local shops have been poor at getting back to me to get something fabricated...

2.06thgen said:

They need a factory turbo charger for the civic... If they just use the RDX k24 motor with the turbo set they would sell more cvic than ever... I'll go back to Honda if they do that lol

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I've always wished for the K24 turbo to be in the 1st gen TSX... Awd would have been a plus but then it may have made the TSX too heavy.

It's funny that the sportier improved version of the TSX would be the first gen TSX... First gen TSX plus turbo K24 and LSD is a win

PandaGTI said:

Except all the big tuners have told me when I approach them, none of our customers cars have that problem, we have shop cars that pull 400+ hp dyno's with no issues (but none flog on the track like it's meant to be flogged), we don't think there is a market for an oil cooler kit, and most local shops have been poor at getting back to me to get something fabricated...

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Yep that's the main one right there. The occasional street race and or highway onramp is MUCH much easier on the car than a track.

That's why most change the brake fluid/transfluid and sometimes even motor oil after every track session

maxtdi said:

Yep that's the main one right there. The occasional street race and or highway onramp is MUCH much easier on the car than a track.

That's why most change the brake fluid/transfluid and sometimes even motor oil after every track session

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exactly, after every session I change th motor oil and twice a year the brake fluid, even did the DSG change early... I'd expect things to wear faster, but I wouldn't expect big engine issues.

The S2K's I run with hardly have any engine issues, or the civics, and neither did my E46 that I used to track just as hard...

There's a reason why when I head out to the race track I seem to be the only GTI or VW out there... maybe I'm just crazy... my friends tell me to pick up a proper track car like an E36 M3 or an S2000... but besides the engine durability issues the GTI is a very very competent track car and I intend to squeeze every last bit of performance out of it prior to switching to something with rwd just to show others what the GTI's potential is... just kinda hard when the engine itself wants to give up and there aren't many VW tuners that make stuff for circuit/ time attack/ track work... most tuners make 1/4 mile stuff, static drop stuff, and airbag stuff...

back on topic...

I hope Honda has nice changes in store for the civic and they start making fun cars again like the S2000 and NSX... Vtec.net has been like a lynch mob with more and more enthusiast leaving every time...

As many of the Honda enthusiasts from the 90's have grown up, they have moved to cars like BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Lexus... I think something like the 1st generation TSX with the turbo K24 from the RDX and LSD would have been such a win to bring those same enthusiast that built up the HOnda brand back.

Think about it, growing up... who would keep telling people to buy a Honda Accord or Civic? the enthusiasts that drove the riced out Civics and Integra's that's who...

Now those same enthusiast are driving VW's, Audi's, Mercs, BMW's... and you know who you are... and what are those enthusiast telling people to buy now?

Since Honda has turned a cold shoulder to its enthusiast, they loose that marketing that the enthusiast brought with them...

danielj said:

I wonder how many of those lost Civic sales went to the Elantra.

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I bet lots.
Lots of lots.
The Elantra is what the Civic should have been.
Hyundai leap frogged right over the Civic with it.
If any buyer were to cross shop these cars, the only thing that I could imagine that would make them choose the Civic would be Hondas reputation for quality.

PandaGTI said:

It's funny that the sportier improved version of the TSX would be the first gen TSX... First gen TSX plus turbo K24 and LSD is a win

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+1 I agree

I loved my '99 Si but they haven't built anything I like since then. The '12 is just continuing the descent into mediocrity...

2.06thgen said:

They need a factory turbo charger for the civic... If they just use the RDX k24 motor with the turbo set they would sell more cvic than ever... I'll go back to Honda if they do that lol

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Meh. Even if they sold a 400whp version with a factory 100k warranty I wouldn't buy or drive one of those. Ugly. I'm sure the interior is equally hideous. And I didn't buy the GTI because it was the most powerful car out there. It performs very well, and it looks great outside and in.

Honda has it's market picked out, 90% of their cars are sold to the people who think driving is a chore. As was mentioned already, they are the GM from the 90s. Uninspired cars slapped together with the opinion of "They'll buy whatever we sell" attitude. The good news for them is that they at least don't have to reliability issues of GM in the 90s. The bad news is Hyundai and Kia are ready and willing to be the Honda of the 90s.