GOLFMK8
GOLFMK7
GOLFMK6
GOLFMKV
VW GTI MKVI Forum / VW Golf R Forum / VW Golf MKVI Forum / VW GTI Forum - Golfmk6.com



Go Back   VW GTI MKVI Forum / VW Golf R Forum / VW Golf MKVI Forum / VW GTI Forum - Golfmk6.com > Technical Topics > Golf 2.5L Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Tunes


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-24-2018, 03:18 PM   #29
Wascally Wabbit
Rally Car Newbie
 
Drives: Rabbit Diesel/TDI/2.5L
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: San Clemente, CA
Posts: 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLue1 View Post
Thats my kind of inspection, what they don't know won't hurt you !!!
No it sucks because ANY modification will fail. California figures the smog techs are to stupid to know the difference between a CARB legal mod and a Non-CARB legal mod. They may be right.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MLue1 View Post
I forgot to add, that you will need to add a vent to air catch can like this one. On my hack job intake manifold builds I have been using the stock plumbing but the high revs are causing too much oil build up in the manifold, so the new manifold will not have a port from the Air/Oil Separator but this Catch Can installed instead.

"Air/Oil Separator" = PCV I am guessing. Correct me if I am wrong. I know their CAI draws the PCV line directly to the intake but I want to use the USP intake as it is much simpler in design and a true cold air intake. I live in So. California so short of an act of God hydrolock will not be an issue. If I can get it to work without too much hassle I will pull the trigger. I am going to install the USP CAI next week and see if I will be able to move it enough to account for the change in location on the TB with the IE intake manifold. If so, black intake w/ stage 2 will be next. I figure once I have done the work it shouldn't be to hard to uninstall/re-install every 2 years for the smog test. And bonus, it was just smogged 2 months ago.

Last edited by Wascally Wabbit; 02-24-2018 at 03:27 PM.
Wascally Wabbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2018, 04:27 PM   #30
FlowMK6
Touring Car Champion
 
FlowMK6's Avatar
 
Drives: Golf 2.5 6speed MT
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: QC, Canada
Posts: 226
As others say, a K03 would be way too small for our engine, I would recommend a PrecisionTurbo 5858 or if you have the money, to look for a Xona Turbo.

I wouldn't recommend the hans turbo kit...

For the exhaust manifold, I would recommand one from BlueWater Performance, the quality / price ratio is good, but if you want the top quality, I would recommend the JDL top mount, it's not listed on their website anymore, but you can contact them and get one. If you are looking for a cheap option, I would recommend the SPATurbo exhaust manifold, I have a few setups using this one.

As for injectors, 550cc seems good to me and I would recommend an high-pressure fuel pump such as a Walbro (they are cheap and good quality) or a Bosch.

For the intercooler, Vibrant Performance have good price. For the tune, UnitedMotorsport seems to be the best on the market.

If you want to get the best from your turbo, I would get an IE intake manifold, for the mounts I would wait to see if they support the turbo setup well. If you do a turbo setup, you should upgrade your clutch, I know someone that didn't changed his clutch when going turbo and it slips and slips... Keep in mind that the differential is weak on the 5-speed and maybe you could look for a LSD or a 02Q swap.

Then, for the power pulley, the harmonic balancer sucks, the pulley is just lighter... I would recommend a TTRS pulley, the harmonic balance is better and I have been told that it would give about 13whp.

The rod isn't really the issue, our rods are like the 1.8T rod, they handle boost pretty well, our pistons are a bit weaker. At 10-12psi, I would't mind about upgrade pistons / rods, some people run 14psi with stock internal without having issues. The head spacer is good to reduce the compression, but I have been told our engine runs on low-compression already.

Good luck with this project, I also wanted to turbo mine in the past, but now I'm more interested in Quattro for the winter and also because all my friends have subaru and AWD is amazing ! Maybe a Audi URS4 ^^

Have fun !
FlowMK6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2018, 05:32 PM   #31
MLue1
FIA GT Champion
 
Drives: 2010 Golf 2.5 CW 5sp / 2009 Tiguan
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: ON your tail with my slow a$$ 2.5
Posts: 976
Flow where have you been?
MLue1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2018, 06:17 PM   #32
OrangeSpy
Autocross Champion
 
Drives: '12 VW Golf 2.5L 5D
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlowMK6 View Post
As others say, a K03 would be way too small for our engine, I would recommend a PrecisionTurbo 5858 or if you have the money, to look for a Xona Turbo.

I wouldn't recommend the hans turbo kit...

For the exhaust manifold, I would recommand one from BlueWater Performance, the quality / price ratio is good, but if you want the top quality, I would recommend the JDL top mount, it's not listed on their website anymore, but you can contact them and get one. If you are looking for a cheap option, I would recommend the SPATurbo exhaust manifold, I have a few setups using this one.

As for injectors, 550cc seems good to me and I would recommend an high-pressure fuel pump such as a Walbro (they are cheap and good quality) or a Bosch.

For the intercooler, Vibrant Performance have good price. For the tune, UnitedMotorsport seems to be the best on the market.

If you want to get the best from your turbo, I would get an IE intake manifold, for the mounts I would wait to see if they support the turbo setup well. If you do a turbo setup, you should upgrade your clutch, I know someone that didn't changed his clutch when going turbo and it slips and slips... Keep in mind that the differential is weak on the 5-speed and maybe you could look for a LSD or a 02Q swap.

Then, for the power pulley, the harmonic balancer sucks, the pulley is just lighter... I would recommend a TTRS pulley, the harmonic balance is better and I have been told that it would give about 13whp.

The rod isn't really the issue, our rods are like the 1.8T rod, they handle boost pretty well, our pistons are a bit weaker. At 10-12psi, I would't mind about upgrade pistons / rods, some people run 14psi with stock internal without having issues. The head spacer is good to reduce the compression, but I have been told our engine runs on low-compression already.

Good luck with this project, I also wanted to turbo mine in the past, but now I'm more interested in Quattro for the winter and also because all my friends have subaru and AWD is amazing ! Maybe a Audi URS4 ^^

Have fun !

Thanks for all the info!!! I didnt know about the other Manifolds so that should help out. I contacted JDL and they want $$$$ for the manifold (it looks like it is worth the money but it's out of my price range) Also, what can you tell me about compression ratios? fro. what I know the 2.5 has a 10:1 and the spacer would make it 8:1. What does this mean?
__________________
5D 2.5 Golf Mk6 | R8 Coils & Platinum Plugs | Diesel Geek SS | Custom CAI | FK Streetlines | Eurojet CBE | Fast "Rennen" Rims |

Last edited by OrangeSpy; 02-24-2018 at 08:30 PM.
OrangeSpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2018, 06:18 PM   #33
OrangeSpy
Autocross Champion
 
Drives: '12 VW Golf 2.5L 5D
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLue1 View Post
Thats my kind of inspection, what they don't know won't hurt you !!!

If $ is not an issue i'd say go buy that puppy and install it with the stage2 Tune. IE probably will run out of stock soon, I doubt they will make too many more manifolds for the 2.5, so you will be able to find a buyer later. Believe me, it is a nice piece the bell mouths are the key and a great feature for our normally aspirated engine, but for turbo application bell mouths is a wasted detail you only need a smooth path to the runners, as the turbo just basically ram air into the runners, runner tuning is really minor.

For the guys interested in turboing the 2.5.
If I was building a 2.5 turbo, I would simply save myself the expense of buying a manifold; open the bottom, use a dremel to cut out the molded curved runners inside where most of the air restriction happens, leaving just the manifold shell and runners, smooth out the entry to the runners with a sanding bit and JB Weld seal it back togeather. 4 out of the 5 runners will be straight to the flange, if you want to go the extra mile and open what's left of the restriction, go to harbor freight and but a stepped bit drill kit and ream out the runners from the flange side. Don't worry about runner for cylinder 5 with the curved molded section removed it is mostly inline with the throttle body so it would benefit a bit from the momentum of the air coming in. One huge benefit of going this way is you will have a plenum that is about 6 litres in size. For back ground info, Skunk2 sells spacers for their race manifolds to enlarge the plenums for the Hondas to make big HP; it has been said on this forum that the large UM United Motorsport manifold is the best for producing turbo HP; ....the original VW manifold already has the volume.

Maybe someone should do this.... ah wait I have! .... but for one of my earlier NA manifolds. The resulting four 5 inch runners and one 11 inch runner don't work for NA application but perfect for turbo application.

If this has helped you, please send donations to my PayPal
You're a legend!
__________________
5D 2.5 Golf Mk6 | R8 Coils & Platinum Plugs | Diesel Geek SS | Custom CAI | FK Streetlines | Eurojet CBE | Fast "Rennen" Rims |
OrangeSpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2018, 11:01 PM   #34
FlowMK6
Touring Car Champion
 
FlowMK6's Avatar
 
Drives: Golf 2.5 6speed MT
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: QC, Canada
Posts: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLue1 View Post
Flow where have you been?
Studying and working harder than ever ^^ Now studying C++ and Assembly on my free time. I started getting more interested in memory management.

I stopped putting money on the golf, I do not buy performance parts anymore, I just do the regular maintenance and no issues with 02Q swap

I'm saving to get an Audi Quattro and if possible to get a 5 cylinders <3, like an old Audi S4 I would have loved to put the golf turbo and AWD, put the cost are just too high, I could get a mint Audi URS4 Quattro for this price.

Having fun at school, rebuilding a engine from A to Z, engines are so interesting, there is also a 07K from a Jetta that I wish I could work on soon



And pretty soon we start with the ECU tuning


Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeSpy View Post
Thanks for all the info!!! I didnt know about the other Manifolds so that should help out. I contacted JDL and they want $$$$ for the manifold (it looks like it is worth the money but it's out of my price range) Also, what can you tell me about compression ratios? fro. what I know the 2.5 has a 10:1 and the spacer would make it 8:1. What does this mean?
Yea JDL is pricey, but worth it if you can afford it

As for the compression ratio, it's a ratio that tells how many times the volume of the combustion chamber can fit in the volume of the cylinder + the volume of the combustion chamber.

For example, our engine is a 2.5L which stands for 2500cc, that would be the total volume of every cylinders togheter. Actually the exact volume is 2,480cc so 496cc per cylinder.

The cylinder is the part of the block and on top of the block, we have the cylinder head. The part of the cylinder head where valves open and where the spark ignite is called the combustion chamber.

Let's say the combustion chamber have a volume of 58cc, the total volume of air that could fit in, would be 554cc or 554ml (496cc + 58cc). The piston is actually at the bottom dead center, when it's time for the compression, the piston will be at the top of his stroke, the left space is the combustion chamber. So before compressing the air, we had 554cc of air and let's say that air weight 20mg, when we compress the air, the volume of air is now 58cc and the air still weight 20mg.

This means the radio would be 554cc for 58cc, in other words, 554:58, so 9.5:1. I forgot to mention, that our engine have a compression ratio of 9.5:1 not 10:1, the Audi 5 cylinders have a ratio of 10:1.

Now let's say we added a head spacer, the volume of the cylinder haven't changed, but now the combustion chamber is bigger. Let's say our combustion chamber now have a volume of 70cc instead of 58cc. This means the total volume of air would be 566cc (496 + 70). We will compress the air, the ratio would be 566:70, so 8:1. The head spacer just make the combustion chamber bigger to reduce the compression, it's only a solution to avoid expensive forged pistons and rods.

Having a higher compression ratio is better for efficiency since you can add less fuel to the air-fuel mix and get more mechanical energy from the detonation since the air-fuel mix is more compressed. Unfortunately, higher compression means higher octane level required since the gasoline ignite with compression and heat, the octane level represent its resistance from ignition against compression. Low-octane level with high compression ratio will lead to knock, when the mix detonate before the spark which can cause dammage, it's more true for ported injection where gasoline is added to the air throught the intake port when on a direction injection, the air will be compressed without gasoline and the gasoline is added at the last moment.

I know I'm going off topic, but it's fun to give some knowledge. On diesel engine, the compression ratio is higher because when compressing molecules, it makes them hotter, it's become hotter because the energy made by the work of piston when compressing air is transfered to the molecules that are contained into the cylinder, this make the molecules stacking energy and moving faster and it becomes hotter. Since the autoignition point of the diesel is 256 degrees celcius it ignite by himself, so no need for spark. But due to high compression, the internals needs to be more solid and this increase the weight of internal and it decrease the max engine speed as the weight increase... That's why diesel are more efficient since the combustion is better as compression increase, turbocharging is pretty usefull in that case, but since the revolution is lower and the HP is based on how fast the torque can be delivered (work), diesel cars have low hp rating but high torque at low-end.

If you any questions, feel free to ask. And if someone is looking for wiring diagram or other stuffs, I have access to ProDemand and AllData

Last edited by FlowMK6; 02-24-2018 at 11:08 PM.
FlowMK6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2018, 10:05 AM   #35
OrangeSpy
Autocross Champion
 
Drives: '12 VW Golf 2.5L 5D
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlowMK6 View Post
Studying and working harder than ever ^^ Now studying C++ and Assembly on my free time. I started getting more interested in memory management.

I stopped putting money on the golf, I do not buy performance parts anymore, I just do the regular maintenance and no issues with 02Q swap

I'm saving to get an Audi Quattro and if possible to get a 5 cylinders <3, like an old Audi S4 I would have loved to put the golf turbo and AWD, put the cost are just too high, I could get a mint Audi URS4 Quattro for this price.

Having fun at school, rebuilding a engine from A to Z, engines are so interesting, there is also a 07K from a Jetta that I wish I could work on soon



And pretty soon we start with the ECU tuning




Yea JDL is pricey, but worth it if you can afford it

As for the compression ratio, it's a ratio that tells how many times the volume of the combustion chamber can fit in the volume of the cylinder + the volume of the combustion chamber.

For example, our engine is a 2.5L which stands for 2500cc, that would be the total volume of every cylinders togheter. Actually the exact volume is 2,480cc so 496cc per cylinder.

The cylinder is the part of the block and on top of the block, we have the cylinder head. The part of the cylinder head where valves open and where the spark ignite is called the combustion chamber.

Let's say the combustion chamber have a volume of 58cc, the total volume of air that could fit in, would be 554cc or 554ml (496cc + 58cc). The piston is actually at the bottom dead center, when it's time for the compression, the piston will be at the top of his stroke, the left space is the combustion chamber. So before compressing the air, we had 554cc of air and let's say that air weight 20mg, when we compress the air, the volume of air is now 58cc and the air still weight 20mg.

This means the radio would be 554cc for 58cc, in other words, 554:58, so 9.5:1. I forgot to mention, that our engine have a compression ratio of 9.5:1 not 10:1, the Audi 5 cylinders have a ratio of 10:1.

Now let's say we added a head spacer, the volume of the cylinder haven't changed, but now the combustion chamber is bigger. Let's say our combustion chamber now have a volume of 70cc instead of 58cc. This means the total volume of air would be 566cc (496 + 70). We will compress the air, the ratio would be 566:70, so 8:1. The head spacer just make the combustion chamber bigger to reduce the compression, it's only a solution to avoid expensive forged pistons and rods.

Having a higher compression ratio is better for efficiency since you can add less fuel to the air-fuel mix and get more mechanical energy from the detonation since the air-fuel mix is more compressed. Unfortunately, higher compression means higher octane level required since the gasoline ignite with compression and heat, the octane level represent its resistance from ignition against compression. Low-octane level with high compression ratio will lead to knock, when the mix detonate before the spark which can cause dammage, it's more true for ported injection where gasoline is added to the air throught the intake port when on a direction injection, the air will be compressed without gasoline and the gasoline is added at the last moment.

I know I'm going off topic, but it's fun to give some knowledge. On diesel engine, the compression ratio is higher because when compressing molecules, it makes them hotter, it's become hotter because the energy made by the work of piston when compressing air is transfered to the molecules that are contained into the cylinder, this make the molecules stacking energy and moving faster and it becomes hotter. Since the autoignition point of the diesel is 256 degrees celcius it ignite by himself, so no need for spark. But due to high compression, the internals needs to be more solid and this increase the weight of internal and it decrease the max engine speed as the weight increase... That's why diesel are more efficient since the combustion is better as compression increase, turbocharging is pretty usefull in that case, but since the revolution is lower and the HP is based on how fast the torque can be delivered (work), diesel cars have low hp rating but high torque at low-end.

If you any questions, feel free to ask. And if someone is looking for wiring diagram or other stuffs, I have access to ProDemand and AllData
Thanks for the detail! Makes perfect sense! I assumed the spacer added space to the combustion chamber thus lowering how much gas is compressed but wasn't 100% and had no idea what the numbers meant.

You mentioned SPAturbo, I came across these guys once before but assumed there 2.5 manifold was for an Audi, will this fit the golf?

You also.mention wiring diagrams, you wouldn't happen to have one for the passenger door of a 2012 Comfortline Golf? My door lock and mirror aren't working and I can't seem to find the problem
__________________
5D 2.5 Golf Mk6 | R8 Coils & Platinum Plugs | Diesel Geek SS | Custom CAI | FK Streetlines | Eurojet CBE | Fast "Rennen" Rims |
OrangeSpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2018, 12:16 PM   #36
MLue1
FIA GT Champion
 
Drives: 2010 Golf 2.5 CW 5sp / 2009 Tiguan
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: ON your tail with my slow a$$ 2.5
Posts: 976
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlowMK6 View Post
Studying and working harder than ever ^^ Now studying C++ and Assembly on my free time. I started getting more interested in memory management.

I stopped putting money on the golf, I do not buy performance parts anymore, I just do the regular maintenance and no issues with 02Q swap

I'm saving to get an Audi Quattro and if possible to get a 5 cylinders <3, like an old Audi S4 I would have loved to put the golf turbo and AWD, put the cost are just too high, I could get a mint Audi URS4 Quattro for this price.

Having fun at school, rebuilding a engine from A to Z, engines are so interesting, there is also a 07K from a Jetta that I wish I could work on soon

And pretty soon we start with the ECU tuning


Yea JDL is pricey, but worth it if you can afford it
Flow, I'm glad you're doing well and most of all learning and loving it. You have come a long way, if I can be of more help let me know.

Have you read your ECU yet? MED17 is a bit of a pain in the ass. For ECU play I've stalled without a dyno.

I have used my tools to recover a few ECUs for shops, getting referrals from BMW guys who f*k up when using an Android phone app to flash their cars. Lol Could do more but in SC.

EDIT: You you go pro don't rely on VW/Audi the mentality is packaged solution like COBB, which is very limiting. I'm liking Ford ST/RS, that stuff is race car quality not cafe racer.

Last edited by MLue1; 02-25-2018 at 12:23 PM.
MLue1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2018, 12:37 PM   #37
MLue1
FIA GT Champion
 
Drives: 2010 Golf 2.5 CW 5sp / 2009 Tiguan
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: ON your tail with my slow a$$ 2.5
Posts: 976
JDL looks good but those long pipes in theory not efficient; when I was in Daytona in January, I spoke to a Ford Eco Boost Support Engineer, he says in practice when engineering turbo systems they try to locate the turbo as close to the intake valves, every inch of extra flow, the exhaust looses kinetic as well as thermal energy. There is a lot more than we know, so don't discount anything. In F1 they would rather use a shaft to relocate the compressor than lengthen the exhaust runners.

I'm not an expert so I'll stop there!
MLue1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2018, 06:20 PM   #38
FlowMK6
Touring Car Champion
 
FlowMK6's Avatar
 
Drives: Golf 2.5 6speed MT
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: QC, Canada
Posts: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeSpy View Post
Thanks for the detail! Makes perfect sense! I assumed the spacer added space to the combustion chamber thus lowering how much gas is compressed but wasn't 100% and had no idea what the numbers meant.

You mentioned SPAturbo, I came across these guys once before but assumed there 2.5 manifold was for an Audi, will this fit the golf?

You also.mention wiring diagrams, you wouldn't happen to have one for the passenger door of a 2012 Comfortline Golf? My door lock and mirror aren't working and I can't seem to find the problem
I have seen someone local using the SPATurbo manifold without issues. SPATurbo says FSI engine, but I have read this :

Quote:
SPA Turbo USA would like to introduce its latest addition to their growing line of turbo exhaust manifolds, the Volkswagen 2.5 liter FSI, inline 5 cylinder manifold (DEI Part# 090346 and SPA Part# TM-W-17). Designed around cars equipped with both power steering and air conditioning, it leaves no comfort to be desired. Cast with Garrett-style T3 turbo and standard 35/38mm 2-bolt wastegate flanges allow for endless combinations. Applications include models in the A5 platform such as 2005-Curent VW Jetta Mk5, 2006-Current VW New Beetle, 2006-Current VW Rabbit, and 2010+ Audi TT RS. As with all SPA Turbo exhaust manifolds, this manifold is cast in our own foundry using a unique blend of molybdenum and aluminum, resulting in one of the strongest, most durable cast iron alloys
For the wiring diagram, I can get this tomorrow in pdf format, please note it's the original wiring diagram in german, so colors are in german and it does use the track style instead of the regular style, IMO the track style is better and easier to work with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MLue1 View Post
Flow, I'm glad you're doing well and most of all learning and loving it. You have come a long way, if I can be of more help let me know.

Have you read your ECU yet? MED17 is a bit of a pain in the ass. For ECU play I've stalled without a dyno.

I have used my tools to recover a few ECUs for shops, getting referrals from BMW guys who f*k up when using an Android phone app to flash their cars. Lol Could do more but in SC.

EDIT: You you go pro don't rely on VW/Audi the mentality is packaged solution like COBB, which is very limiting. I'm liking Ford ST/RS, that stuff is race car quality not cafe racer.
I still haven't played with my car yet, I only have the Kess... But my friend want to tune his MR2 Turbo in the spring / summer. The MR2 use a chip in ROM(Read-only memory), so we can't edit the map, we will be using a AEM EMS standalone ECU or maybe a MegaSquirt since it's cheaper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MLue1 View Post
JDL looks good but those long pipes in theory not efficient; when I was in Daytona in January, I spoke to a Ford Eco Boost Support Engineer, he says in practice when engineering turbo systems they try to locate the turbo as close to the intake valves, every inch of extra flow, the exhaust looses kinetic as well as thermal energy. There is a lot more than we know, so don't discount anything. In F1 they would rather use a shaft to relocate the compressor than lengthen the exhaust runners.

I'm not an expert so I'll stop there!
It's totally true that longer the pipe is, the more you loose kinetic energy and thermal energy. But there are so much factors to consider. It's important to understand that the exhaust stroke doesn't happens at the same time between cylinders (a bit of overlap with the 5 cylinders).

Let's compare the SPATurbo manifold (log style) with the JDL (tubular style). With the SPATurbo, the exhaust route / path is shorter than the JDL due to the short runner. But with the JDL design, the exhaust pulse from each cylinder is more isolated / preserved due to the individual pipes leading to a better flowing / "vacuum effect". Here is a video that that show what I'm trying to explain:



The JDL manifold is exclusively tuned for our cars, there is some flow dynamics work there.

Then, the SPATurbo which is a cast manifold might be more durable and heat less that a tubular style, but the JDL is made of good materials with thermal coating.

The JDL is a top mount style manifold when the SPATurbo use bottom mount style. Again both styles have advantages and disavantages.

The JDL allow the use of a bigger turbo and the oil drain is better on the JDL, but needs some custom downpipe which are harder to make / find. It might heat the hood without thermal insulation.

The SPATurbo will heat less and the downpipe fitting is easier, it doesn't look as good as the top mount. The turbo size is limited due to the limited clearance. Then, the gravity point is better with a bottom mount turbo than a top mount.

In term of price, top mount will cost more due to extra piping and material needed for the extra heat.

From what I read, the JDL would be the turbo manifold with the best flowing. The BlueWater Performance manifold is good too, cheaper than the JDL and better than the SPATurbo.

Then if you want to reduce piping to avoid the lost of kinetic and thermal energy, you could use meth/water injection instead of an intercooler. But knowing you are from Canada, I don't know if that kind of setup run well in winter

Last edited by FlowMK6; 02-25-2018 at 06:31 PM.
FlowMK6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2018, 08:38 PM   #39
OrangeSpy
Autocross Champion
 
Drives: '12 VW Golf 2.5L 5D
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlowMK6 View Post
I have seen someone local using the SPATurbo manifold without issues. SPATurbo says FSI engine, but I have read this :

For the wiring diagram, I can get this tomorrow in pdf format, please note it's the original wiring diagram in german, so colors are in german and it does use the track style instead of the regular style, IMO the track style is better and easier to work with.



I still haven't played with my car yet, I only have the Kess... But my friend want to tune his MR2 Turbo in the spring / summer. The MR2 use a chip in ROM(Read-only memory), so we can't edit the map, we will be using a AEM EMS standalone ECU or maybe a MegaSquirt since it's cheaper.



It's totally true that longer the pipe is, the more you loose kinetic energy and thermal energy. But there are so much factors to consider. It's important to understand that the exhaust stroke doesn't happens at the same time between cylinders (a bit of overlap with the 5 cylinders).

Let's compare the SPATurbo manifold (log style) with the JDL (tubular style). With the SPATurbo, the exhaust route / path is shorter than the JDL due to the short runner. But with the JDL design, the exhaust pulse from each cylinder is more isolated / preserved due to the individual pipes leading to a better flowing / "vacuum effect". Here is a video that that show what I'm trying to explain:



The JDL manifold is exclusively tuned for our cars, there is some flow dynamics work there.

Then, the SPATurbo which is a cast manifold might be more durable and heat less that a tubular style, but the JDL is made of good materials with thermal coating.

The JDL is a top mount style manifold when the SPATurbo use bottom mount style. Again both styles have advantages and disavantages.

The JDL allow the use of a bigger turbo and the oil drain is better on the JDL, but needs some custom downpipe which are harder to make / find. It might heat the hood without thermal insulation.

The SPATurbo will heat less and the downpipe fitting is easier, it doesn't look as good as the top mount. The turbo size is limited due to the limited clearance. Then, the gravity point is better with a bottom mount turbo than a top mount.

In term of price, top mount will cost more due to extra piping and material needed for the extra heat.

From what I read, the JDL would be the turbo manifold with the best flowing. The BlueWater Performance manifold is good too, cheaper than the JDL and better than the SPATurbo.

Then if you want to reduce piping to avoid the lost of kinetic and thermal energy, you could use meth/water injection instead of an intercooler. But knowing you are from Canada, I don't know if that kind of setup run well in winter
I see blue water also sells 5976e and 5931e turbos, what do you think of these? they came up with the search for a 2.5 mk5

edit: They also have the option for a wastegate hole on the turbo it's self. Is this the same as a waste gate hole on a manifold?
__________________
5D 2.5 Golf Mk6 | R8 Coils & Platinum Plugs | Diesel Geek SS | Custom CAI | FK Streetlines | Eurojet CBE | Fast "Rennen" Rims |

Last edited by OrangeSpy; 02-25-2018 at 08:53 PM.
OrangeSpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2018, 10:50 PM   #40
FlowMK6
Touring Car Champion
 
FlowMK6's Avatar
 
Drives: Golf 2.5 6speed MT
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: QC, Canada
Posts: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeSpy View Post
I see blue water also sells 5976e and 5931e turbos, what do you think of these? they came up with the search for a 2.5 mk5

edit: They also have the option for a wastegate hole on the turbo it's self. Is this the same as a waste gate hole on a manifold?

Wastegate hole on manifold ? What they meant when you can choose a turbine housing with a Wastegate hole, is that you have an internal wastegate. I would prefer an external wastegate, easier to adjust,a bit less restrictive and louder

Between the 5976 and the 5931, I would choose the 5976.

The first two number is the compressor wheel size in mm, the second number is the turbine wheel size. In general, the flow is better when the compressor and the turbine wheel have the same size, that's why you often see pt5858, pt6262, etc...

IMO, I would look for a 5858 minimum, if the turbo is too small, the maximum CFM output (cubic feet per minute) would be too low for our 5 cylinders, that why a K04 wouldn't be that good on our cars.

The maximum cfm output increase as the compressor wheel size increase. The spool time also increase as the compressor size increase, but you can make the spool time shorter by removing restriction. The max turbo boost increase when the turbo cfm output is greater than the engine cfm.

Also keep in mind, a low A/R ratio will spool quicker, but generate less boost. A high A/R will generate a lot of boost in the top-end but will take time to spool.
FlowMK6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2018, 08:45 AM   #41
OrangeSpy
Autocross Champion
 
Drives: '12 VW Golf 2.5L 5D
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlowMK6 View Post
Wastegate hole on manifold ? What they meant when you can choose a turbine housing with a Wastegate hole, is that you have an internal wastegate. I would prefer an external wastegate, easier to adjust,a bit less restrictive and louder

Between the 5976 and the 5931, I would choose the 5976.

The first two number is the compressor wheel size in mm, the second number is the turbine wheel size. In general, the flow is better when the compressor and the turbine wheel have the same size, that's why you often see pt5858, pt6262, etc...

IMO, I would look for a 5858 minimum, if the turbo is too small, the maximum CFM output (cubic feet per minute) would be too low for our 5 cylinders, that why a K04 wouldn't be that good on our cars.

The maximum cfm output increase as the compressor wheel size increase. The spool time also increase as the compressor size increase, but you can make the spool time shorter by removing restriction. The max turbo boost increase when the turbo cfm output is greater than the engine cfm.

Also keep in mind, a low A/R ratio will spool quicker, but generate less boost. A high A/R will generate a lot of boost in the top-end but will take time to spool.
You are a turbo guru!
trying to balance budget and performance is proving to be difficult haha. In you're opinion would you say a front mount intercooler would be better then a side mount? I'm trying to keep the cars external as stock as I can to hide what's truly under the hood. Most side mounts I've found can't handle much more then 200hp and the ones that can are $$$. Also, do you know where I can tap into for an oil feed?
And no worries about the German in the wiring diagram, Google can help me out
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ef8.jpg (54.3 KB, 20 views)
__________________
5D 2.5 Golf Mk6 | R8 Coils & Platinum Plugs | Diesel Geek SS | Custom CAI | FK Streetlines | Eurojet CBE | Fast "Rennen" Rims |

Last edited by OrangeSpy; 02-26-2018 at 12:30 PM.
OrangeSpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2018, 02:06 PM   #42
MLue1
FIA GT Champion
 
Drives: 2010 Golf 2.5 CW 5sp / 2009 Tiguan
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: ON your tail with my slow a$$ 2.5
Posts: 976
Found the SPA Turbo info, looks very promising.
http://www.designengineering.com/pre...haust-manifold
MLue1 is online now   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Tags
2.5, custom, k03, mk6, turbo

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.