Adjusting Mk6 negative camber in rear

[VMRWheels]

Camber WILL wear a tire faster, I don't care how many suspensions you have DIY'd.

If we establish your normal contact patch at 0 camber, and relate this to the width of the tire, changing the camber will directly affect how that contact patch touches the road, decreasing its size in relation to tire width. If the outside of the tire now has less weight on it, then we know that the inside of the tire must have MORE weight on it. Simple laws of physics here. Given that you are now applying more weight to the inside of the tire, that section WILL wear faster, regardless of your toe and caster settings.

The same weight on a smaller contact patch means a higher weight per square inch, which will cause the tire to wear faster in those areas of higher weight concentration.

Just thought I would set this straight.

While negative camber will indeed affect a tire's wear, I do think people often confuse camber and toe wear with just camber wear. If you have toe that is within spec and you rotate your tires or flip them, you could still get decent mileage out of your tires. What totally kills tires quickly is the combination of toe with camber, which is why its important to get an alignment. :thumbsup:

 

[zee]

While negative camber will indeed affect a tire's wear, I do think people often confuse camber and toe wear with just camber wear. If you have toe that is within spec and you rotate your tires or flip them, you could still get decent mileage out of your tires. What totally kills tires quickly is the combination of toe with camber, which is why its important to get an alignment. :thumbsup:

:thumbsup:

Cambered tires just like stock detroits on full OEM alignment spec, if not rotated or swapped regularly would not get full use and thread life out of the tires. This should be done every 10K as recommended by VW which is mostly neglected on cambered tires.

 

[BeauG]

Your missing the point. I'm not saying cambered tires are going to wear in 2 months. I'm just correcting the fact that you guys have said it provides NO additional wear, which is false.

 

[zee]

...and you have not indicated how much additional positive/negative camber will cause a GTI to wear faster especially without extra camber plates on street cruising use. In my situation as I have outlined a few times in this thread, driving like grandpa wont eat my tires faster...especially if I keep swapping and rotating according to VW's recommended intervals.

Track/high spirited use is different as it uses more rubber in the tire to push more G-forces in turns when approaching the suspension limit.

 

[stuck24]

thread jack time:

there is a reason why tires on corollas/ camrys/ Sonatas etc last so long. Cos they do not run aggressive toe/ camber specs.

The reason why early 350Z tires were wearing out by 8k was becuase of their "ultra" aggressive camber/ toe specs.

I thought extra negative camber in the rear will cause a bit more understeer. You're getting the rear to "stick" more in the back.... Isn't this jacking with our car's solid balance?

I know the extra wear on the inner sides of the rears will also cause some rumbling tire noise pretty quickly....

but hey, if you can live with it.... do it!

 

[RSMark5]

^^^ I think you're still misunderstanding his purpose for the neg camber.


He won't be maxing out his car, he won't need to worry about understeer to creep around corners.


Also, the old adage goes. Pay to play. You want to have nice aggressive wheels, you're going to need camber. Will camber hurt the life of your tire? Probably. Does anyone who's into the aggressive stance/wheel thing care? Probably not.

 

[AdvanSuper]

It's like if you used only one half of an eraser and the other side remains unworn. Instead of the tire wearing evenly one side is worn down more than the other in, extreme cases it's a lot and in others not so much. It's due to tire not making full contact with the road.

 

[zee]

thread jack time:

there is a reason why tires on corollas/ camrys/ Sonatas etc last so long. Cos they do not run aggressive toe/ camber specs.

The reason why early 350Z tires were wearing out by 8k was becuase of their "ultra" aggressive camber/ toe specs.

That is the job of the toe, not camber.

Toe tells the car how much harder to use inner or outer parts of the tire. Toe in eats the outer part when going straight. Toe in eats the inner part.

Camber tells the car what sides of the tire to use (inner or outer parts). Depending on how much you setup for straight line, the other portion will be available when cornering. Swapping and rotating will make sure all parts are worn.


A more powerful RWD 350Z compared with a FWD GTI will have ALOT more aggressive toe in and out in the front and rear wheels to stop them from fish tailing when the drivers lay on the power in a straight line.

corollas/ camrys/ Sonatas are also all FWD and do not have to worry about aggressive toe or hp eating the tires.

 

[VMRWheels]

One thing to note is that even on Corollas, Camrys, Sonatas, etc. is that they may have tires that simply last longer. A car dealership is not going to equip those types of vehicles with a Bridgestone RE-11 from the factory when most people would be perfectly fine with a Continental DWS.

 

[zee]

The alignment is back. Apparently the picture of the back wheel that I posted above was already almost -3 untouched, which happens automatically when a car is lowered. Using front camber plates, my setting is below.

Front drive wheels: 18x8 215/40/18
-2 44' / -2 42 Camber | 0' / 0' Toe

Rear follow wheels: 18x9.5 215/40/18
-3 / -3 Camber | +7' / +7' Toe

The tire are directional I'll be swapping/rotating them in 10,000miles and will post the results to compare the wear.

Basically,
Stock:
Front : -30' +/- 30' camber ,
Rear: 1 20' Camber and 0 Toe

My new setting:
Front: -2.5 Camber, and 0 Toe
OR
Rear: -3 Camber ,and +7 Toe.

I suspect the follow wheels(rear) will wear marginally quicker than the front due to the +7 toe even though it is only -.5 more camber. We shall see.

 

[BeauG]

...and you have not indicated how much additional positive/negative camber will cause a GTI to wear faster especially without extra camber plates on street cruising use. In my situation as I have outlined a few times in this thread, driving like grandpa wont eat my tires faster...especially if I keep swapping and rotating according to VW's recommended intervals.

Track/high spirited use is different as it uses more rubber in the tire to push more G-forces in turns when approaching the suspension limit.

ANY extra camber regardless of which direction is going to wear one side of the tire faster. By "swapping and rotating according to VW's recommended intervals." you are just going to wear out outside of your tires faster than the inside.

Again, it may not be a LOT faster, but there is going to be a difference. How this obvious point can escape you is beyond me

 

[zee]

ANY extra camber regardless of which direction is going to wear one side of the tire faster. By "swapping and rotating according to VW's recommended intervals." you are just going to wear out outside of your tires faster than the inside.

Again, it may not be a LOT faster, but there is going to be a difference. How this obvious point can escape you is beyond me

VW recommends rotating every 10K front to back. I'll be unmount swapping my directional 'tires only' left to right to get my full thread life. Inner on the left side will be outer on the right side and both sides of the tire will wear when I do this. It costs $20 per tire so I wont be breaking the bank.

Will I lose 500miles of treadlife? Possibly. Losing this much isn't the camber will eat tire everyone has been posting.
Will I lose 1000miles of treadlife? Maybe. Losing this much still isn't the camber will eat tire everyone has been posting.
Will I lose 10000miles of treadlife? ...
Will I lose 20000miles of treadlife? ...

I would like to know and no one has been able to answer...

 

[03boostedGTi]

looking to do this next week, very helpful!

 

[zee]

looking to do this next week, very helpful!

:laugh: Are you sure? What are you trying to fit? Aggressive alignment or closer to stock.

Found this link, at least they agree on Camber and Toe.
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforu...ide-tire-wear-excessive-camber-or-toe-in.html

 

[rgs]

Camber WILL wear a tire faster, I don't care how many suspensions you have DIY'd.

If we establish your normal contact patch at 0 camber, and relate this to the width of the tire, changing the camber will directly affect how that contact patch touches the road, decreasing its size in relation to tire width. If the outside of the tire now has less weight on it, then we know that the inside of the tire must have MORE weight on it. Simple laws of physics here. Given that you are now applying more weight to the inside of the tire, that section WILL wear faster, regardless of your toe and caster settings.

The same weight on a smaller contact patch means a higher weight per square inch, which will cause the tire to wear faster in those areas of higher weight concentration.

Just thought I would set this straight.

Any camber change out of spec will cause extra wear. I lowered my last car a tiny 1.25" with TRD factory springs/shocks. I had a full alignment done when I finished the install and while I do not have the exact numbers in memory, the tech told me I was at the very edges of spec for the car for camber both front and rear. Everything else was still pretty close to what the car was from the previous alignment. I put brand new tires on when I changed the suspension and they were the same exact tires I had from new. I got 40K out of the first set and the second set was shot at 20K and that was rotating every oil change at 5K. I had to install camber bolts in the front struts and longer lower rear control arms. The front bolts allowed an extra 2 degrees of camber and the control arms gave 3 degrees. I had the car realigned to be perfectly dead center within factory spec and the next set of tires (P Zero Nero's) still had half their tread after 25K.

That is why I will not lower my GTI. Even though the DG Springs are a mild drop that looks great, I fear that the alignment will not be correct afterwards and I will be replacing tires way too soon.

Let me see someone's alignment specs prior to the DG Spring install and after. I would love to see how far off they are.