Adjusting Mk6 negative camber in rear

[Ben_GTI]

VW recommends rotating every 10K front to back. I'll be unmount swapping my directional 'tires only' left to right to get my full thread life. Inner on the left side will be outer on the right side and both sides of the tire will wear when I do this. It costs $20 per tire so I wont be breaking the bank.

Will I lose 500miles of treadlife? Possibly. Losing this much isn't the camber will eat tire everyone has been posting.
Will I lose 1000miles of treadlife? Maybe. Losing this much still isn't the camber will eat tire everyone has been posting.
Will I lose 10000miles of treadlife? ...
Will I lose 20000miles of treadlife? ...

I would like to know and no one has been able to answer...

You are not suppose to flip directional tires inside-out if that are indeed what
you have. That would cause the directional thread to go in opposite direction. You should only flip them if they are non-directional tires.

Loss of tread life has a lot factors including the tread wear rating on your tires and how far off your alignment is from stock spec. No one can give you an exact answer when we don't know how long your tires will last in stock setting to begin with. If I have to take a stab in the dark, I'd say you'll lose at least
33-50% if they are directional tires. And if you are crazy enough to flip them, they will wear out much faster than that.

You must really love those wheels to go that far to 'fit' them on your car. Wrapping 215 tires on 9.5 wheels is pretty extreme in itself.

 

[junior0404]

You are not suppose to flip directional tires inside-out if that are indeed what
you have. That would cause the directional thread to go in opposite direction. You should only flip them if they are non-directional tires.

Loss of tread life has a lot factors including the tread wear rating on your tires and how far off your alignment is from stock spec. No one can give you an exact answer when we don't know how long your tires will last in stock setting to begin with. If I have to take a stab in the dark, I'd say you'll lose at least
33-50% if they are directional tires. And if you are crazy enough to flip them, they will wear out much faster than that.

You must really love those wheels to go that far to 'fit' them on your car. Wrapping 215 tires on 9.5 wheels is pretty extreme in itself.

 

[zee]

You are not suppose to flip directional tires inside-out if that are indeed what
you have. That would cause the directional thread to go in opposite direction. You should only flip them if they are non-directional tires.
.

You do not understand. I am not flipping the wheels..only the tires.

The inner on the right side will be the outer on the left side. The thread will still be rolling forward.

As I have mentioned countless times above I am not FLIPPING the tire with the wheel to the opposite side, I am swapping the tires them LEFT TO RIGHT. It costs $20. My tire manufacturer does not make tires for the right side and tires for the left side. There is only one batch.

If I flip them left to right, inner will be on both sides, outers will be on both sides.

How will this thread pattern change if I remove it from the left wheel and place it on the right wheel? Take an unmounted tire and put in on the left side, next to your wheel(tilt it right). Then move it to the right side of your car(tilt it left) and tell me how the thread will be rolling in the opposite way.

 

[zee]

You must really love those wheels to go that far to 'fit' them on your car. Wrapping 215 tires on 9.5 wheels is pretty extreme in itself.

How far? They already fit the car before I touched the alignment. Pic below.

With my high offset, if this is extreme then Alphards must be mental.

 

[zee]

Loss of tread life has a lot factors including the tread wear rating on your tires and how far off your alignment is from stock spec. No one can give you an exact answer when we don't know how long your tires will last in stock setting to begin.

...and thanks for this comment. This is what I assumed. No one knows and we are all guessing.

I understand camber as using one side of the tire. I understand toe as aggressively eating the tire which is what the rennlist link explained.

We'll see how much I get out of these tires after swapping them and running 0 toe in front with my driving style.

 

[RacingManiac]

Just a thought also, can you use maybe tires with higher tread wear rating with less aggressive compound to help you combat the wear? I figure if you are not going to drive hard you probably don't need that high performance of a tire....

Also another point, more camber(in high performance application) are done for cornering ability, but often to some extent at the expense of braking stability and maybe outright braking performance(less contact patches in a straight line, and more cambered wheel being more sensitive to road profile). Just something to keep in mind.

 

[BeauG]

This is the wear I'm talking about. You can't wear the tread evenly on a cambered tire, ESPECIALLY with the aggressive stretch you are running. No matter how often you rotate the tires, the center of the tire will wear less than the edges, and you will lose overall treadlife in the tire.

I can't give you an exact mileage. To expect someone to be able to provide you with an accurate number like that is ridiculous. The point behind all this, is that with excessive camber, you lose contact patch which decreases your braking ability(a safety loss), and you WILL noticeably diminish your tread (not tHread) life.

 

[zee]

OK,tread (I know I correctly spelt it higher up in this thread).

Anyway, I never claimed the thread will wear evenly. I said both ends will wear when I rotate it which will prolong the tread life(just like rotating with OEM alignment prolongs the treadlife of each tire). Aggressive stretch does not run the tires on the sidewall, it still runs on tread.

If the center of the tire will wear less than the edges(like you said), won’t it be the same after I rotate it?
When the tire is on the left..
Left end: 0% , center:40-60%, right end: 100%.

When the tire is on the right after my swap..
right end: 0% , center:40-60%, left end: 100%.


The tire will still wear at an angle because I am cambered, but by swapping it, I am giving each end of the tire a break for a few thousand miles.

Golfs are stilll spec'd with 195 and 205 tires which is probably still less than the patch that I am putting on the road for the weight of this car.

 

[zee]

Just a thought also, can you use maybe tires with higher tread wear rating with less aggressive compound to help you combat the wear? I figure if you are not going to drive hard you probably don't need that high performance of a tire....

Also another point, more camber(in high performance application) are done for cornering ability, but often to some extent at the expense of braking stability and maybe outright braking performance(less contact patches in a straight line, and more cambered wheel being more sensitive to road profile). Just something to keep in mind.

The current tires are 360 rating and I will be replacing them at the end of the year when I rebuilt the wheels. They are quite cheap so I doubt they will have much high performance capability. Just a basic A-B certified tire which is very good in the rain...but they should get me enough data when I get the real tires for next year.

Some braking expense is lost with camber, but I do not think it is important in street use. The car will still stop and is very predictable. the lost braking can probably be gained with more aggresive street or race brake bad as well as better tires than the OEM Pirellis.

I fully agree with you that they are a little more sensitive to the road imperfections that I drive on, but not bad enough to worry over.

 

[RacingManiac]

Some braking expense is lost with camber, but I do not think it is important in street use. The car will still stop and is very predictable. the lost braking can probably be gained with more aggresive street or race brake bad as well as better tires than the OEM Pirellis.

You will only brake as well as your tire have grip....big brake/small brake/aggressive pad or not.

But thats again on limit, regular driving/awareness of your situation trumps all...Only thing I'd worry is for those situation where a D-bag decided to pull out suddenly in front of you and you have to avoid them...

 

[zee]

My GTI's braking is fine with the camber. D-bags are always outthere and can't be avoided even if I run the best gripping tires. Too many things come into play when it comes to braking in an emergency situation...pointing fingers at my camber isn't the solution to fast braking as I do not have braking issues.

 

[BeauG]

OK,tread (I know I correctly spelt it higher up in this thread).

Anyway, I never claimed the thread will wear evenly. I said both ends will wear when I rotate it which will prolong the tread life(just like rotating with OEM alignment prolongs the treadlife of each tire). Aggressive stretch does not run the tires on the sidewall, it still runs on tread.

If the center of the tire will wear less than the edges(like you said), won’t it be the same after I rotate it?
When the tire is on the left..
Left end: 0% , center:40-60%, right end: 100%.

When the tire is on the right after my swap..
right end: 0% , center:40-60%, left end: 100%.


The tire will still wear at an angle because I am cambered, but by swapping it, I am giving each end of the tire a break for a few thousand miles.

Golfs are stilll spec'd with 195 and 205 tires which is probably still less than the patch that I am putting on the road for the weight of this car.

Well I never said anything about running the tire on the sidewall..

As for wear, regardless of how often you rotate the tires, the sides are going to wear faster than the middle. You can prolong the life of the tires by rotating, but you are not going to see the same tread life of a non-cambered setup.

For the record I was never fighting your ability to rotate the tires to get more life out of them, I was fighting the conceived notion that you would be able to get the same tread life out of them as compared to a 0deg camber setup, which is false.

 

[zee]

As for wear, regardless of how often you rotate the tires, the sides are going to wear faster than the middle. You can prolong the life of the tires by rotating, but you are not going to see the same tread life of a non-cambered setup.
.

I agree the sides will wear quicker than the middle on a cambered tire(since it is touching and scrubbing tarmac more), but I do not think I will loose alot of treadlife while they wear ...since camber does not eat tires as proclaimed above. Toes does....

For the record I was never fighting your ability to rotate the tires to get more life out of them, I was fighting the conceived notion that you would be able to get the same tread life out of them as compared to a 0deg camber setup, which is false.

That is the problem. Most people who run camber do not rotate their tires the way I explained and then complain that the tire is worn out too fast. I do not see why I can't get at least 75-80% mileage out of my tires when I rotate them properly to fully wear all the sides of the tread. They will still have tread at this point but would have worn in angles making the tires useless.

If a tire is able to do 20K, I think a normal non-cambered tire will still have even & usable low tread at 20K, a cambered rotated properly will also still have tread but would have worn in angles. Making them useless at this point. All of which varies depending on the driver. I get 340miles+ per tank driving in city 90% of the time, so that shows how much I use the gas pedal and my tires(in straights & turns). My gas mileage sheet is posted on this forum.
I have mentioned "low and slow" street vs high spirited & track situations...and on page one indicated that on a track with camber, the tires will be used harder and will wear faster in the corners.

I don't think by swapping correctly that I would lose up to 50% which is the only estimate that I have seen in this thread regarding camber eating tires ALOT faster. I am not running 4 or 5 degrees camber.

 

[BeauG]

I agree the sides will wear quicker than the middle on a cambered tire(since it is touching and scrubbing tarmac more), but I do not think I will loose alot of treadlife while they wear ...since camber does not eat tires as proclaimed above. Toes does....




That is the problem. Most people who run camber do not rotate their tires the way I explained and then complain that the tire is worn out too fast. I do not see why I can't get at least 75-80% mileage out of my tires when I rotate them properly to fully wear all the sides of the tread. They will still have tread at this point but would have worn in angles making the tires useless.

If a tire is able to do 20K, I think a normal non-cambered tire will still have even & usable low tread at 20K, a cambered rotated properly will also still have tread but would have worn in angles. Making them useless at this point. All of which varies depending on the driver. I get 340miles+ per tank driving in city 90% of the time, so that shows how much I use the gas pedal and my tires(in straights & turns). My gas mileage sheet is posted on this forum.
I have mentioned "low and slow" street vs high spirited & track situations...and on page one indicated that on a track with camber, the tires will be used harder and will wear faster in the corners.

I don't think by swapping correctly that I would lose up to 50% which is the only estimate that I have seen in this thread regarding camber eating tires ALOT faster. I am not running 4 or 5 degrees camber.

Oh you definitely wouldn't be reduced to 50% tread life, but I wouldn't expect 90% I would say your 75-80% estimate is around the right number. I wasn't saying not to do it, just wanted to get the facts out there about how the tread would wear :happyanim::thumbup:

 

[warchieft2k]

so this is the correct bolt to adjust right?

and for an 1.5 rear drop should i max it out... where both bolts are facing in?

thanks


oh yeah... I have a 2010 MKVI.... is the same right?