1st gear lag almost caused an accident?

[[Old User]]

I admit that something weird is definitely going on.
Electrical signals though are faster than mechanical systems. That seems weird there is an idea that there is a delay in electrical signals. Need to study drive by wire more I guess.
Sometimes I think the car has a thought process - as you are slowing down it expects you will continue slowing down and relaxes and you give it some gas, it says "wtf I thought you were slowing. Shit, now I have to reconfigure things to speed up. Hang on a second". and there is a delay
Other times I find the car might know that I wanted to speed up and it reacts fine. Damn cars and making me say such stupid things

Yeah I know, I just meant mechanical vs. our particular electronic throttle, which is slow as a monkey's uncle. And I agree, the car does seem almost startled that you have it gas, like what? why are you giving me gas. you should be slowing down. fine I'll speed up. in 10 minutes. I drove my mom's Audi Q5, probably the same throttle, in slap shift mode and it responded immediately. no hesitation.

 

[Thumper]

Go in first gear up fo 20 mph or so, and quickly brake all the way to say, 5 mph. rolling, with the clutch depressed

You never need to have your foot on the clutch. Just suddenly, step hard on the gas the moment you slow down to mph, maybe have the wheel turnbed a bit (If you really want to replicate what happened to me).

there will be massive lag if your tcs is on.

This issue has nothing to do with learning how to drive, unless you all are suggesting I constantly keep the car at 1700rpm, slipping and wearing the clutch all the time?

1700RPM was an exaggeration by the person that said that, I would hope, but you should use higher RPM than 700 at idle to start moving especially in an emergency situation.

I disagree with the bolded part and here's why.

First, there are two HUGE flaws in driving style that MUST be completed to follow you're instructions to replicate this "problem".

A) Leaving TC on.

B) I would have to decelerate with the clutch depressed.

Now, I am not really sure what you are trying to say here....as it seems to contradict itself;

Go in first gear up fo 20 mph or so, and quickly brake all the way to say, 5 mph. rolling, with the clutch depressed

You never need to have your foot on the clutch. Just suddenly, step hard on the gas the moment you slow down to mph.....

So, how do I depress the clutch, but never touch the clutch, and then hammer the gas? What gear are you in here?

See, this is the problem, when I brake, I downshift. So in your example of going 20 (probably in 2nd gear) I would blip the throttle and then hit the brake, depress the clutch and select 1st gear then release the clutch with a rev matched shift. When I get to 5MPH and hit the gas I am in 1st and take off.

I'll throw it back at you guys, for those saying that TC has nothing to do with it, you're wrong. TC uses the brakes to slow the front wheels (power wheels) when it senses slip, I don't know how hard it is to understand that brakes clamping on the rotors causes the vehicle to SLOW. When this happens at launch it will feel like lag or bogging down.

There are three things contributing to this issue on the manual, DSG guys have other problems.

1) TC (Its real, it's there, get used to it. Turn it off.)

2) Design of a turbo engine, full power is NOT available below 2000RPM and any power at 700RPM is negligible.

3) Driving skill with engaging clutch and proper downshifting

I drive the same car you guys do and I do NOT HAVE THIS PROBLEM. Ever. So you can either tell me I am wrong, it can't POSSIBLY be these things and continue to just complain about it which will not change a thing. Or you can attempt to take some advice (isn't that the point of these forums, to ask for advice and accept it?) and maybe, just maybe, solve your problem.

If you refuse to even attempt the suggestions than oh well, but if you decide to make some attempts you may just get rid of this problem. If after a week or two of proper downshifting and disengaging of the TC you still have this problem and it's in NO WAY driver issues.....than, that sucks, VW must have made your car vastly different than mine......:iono:

Not trying to be a dick, trying to offer some advice and help.

 

[BackToVWs]

my brain was "off"

I didnt mean depress the clutch

I just meant to not even have your foot on the clutch pedal, just leave the car in first gear, go from 20mph or so -> slow roll (5mph) , then step on it (to merge into traffic)

thats how I can re-create this

 

[xd-data-ii]

Yeah but that's all about what rpm your engine is at. You'll get nothing happening quickly below 1100 rpm or so.
It's like driving along at around 35 or 40 in sixth. Nothing will happen until you wait or shift down some gears
A knowledge of where in rpm range max torque, boost onset, max power and the power band is essential

Also would never recommend first gear when slowing down especially at 20 mph. It's a starting off gear - but that was another long thrashed out discussion elsewhere

 

[BackToVWs]

Yeah but that's all about what rpm your engine is at. You'll get nothing happening quickly below 1100 rpm or so.
It's like driving along at around 35 or 40 in sixth. Nothing will happen until you wait or shift down some gears
A knowledge of where in rpm range max torque, boost onset, max power and the power band is essential

good point. the first way to fix this is better knowledge how the engine here works. I admit it, I have some learning to do.

 

[astro_zombies]

1700RPM was an exaggeration by the person that said that, I would hope, but you should use higher RPM than 700 at idle to start moving especially in an emergency situation.

I disagree with the bolded part and here's why.

First, there are two HUGE flaws in driving style that MUST be completed to follow you're instructions to replicate this "problem".

A) Leaving TC on.

B) I would have to decelerate with the clutch depressed.

Now, I am not really sure what you are trying to say here....as it seems to contradict itself;



So, how do I depress the clutch, but never touch the clutch, and then hammer the gas? What gear are you in here?

See, this is the problem, when I brake, I downshift. So in your example of going 20 (probably in 2nd gear) I would blip the throttle and then hit the brake, depress the clutch and select 1st gear then release the clutch with a rev matched shift. When I get to 5MPH and hit the gas I am in 1st and take off.

I'll throw it back at you guys, for those saying that TC has nothing to do with it, you're wrong. TC uses the brakes to slow the front wheels (power wheels) when it senses slip, I don't know how hard it is to understand that brakes clamping on the rotors causes the vehicle to SLOW. When this happens at launch it will feel like lag or bogging down.

There are three things contributing to this issue on the manual, DSG guys have other problems.

1) TC (Its real, it's there, get used to it. Turn it off.)

2) Design of a turbo engine, full power is NOT available below 2000RPM and any power at 700RPM is negligible.

3) Driving skill with engaging clutch and proper downshifting

I drive the same car you guys do and I do NOT HAVE THIS PROBLEM. Ever. So you can either tell me I am wrong, it can't POSSIBLY be these things and continue to just complain about it which will not change a thing. Or you can attempt to take some advice (isn't that the point of these forums, to ask for advice and accept it?) and maybe, just maybe, solve your problem.

If you refuse to even attempt the suggestions than oh well, but if you decide to make some attempts you may just get rid of this problem. If after a week or two of proper downshifting and disengaging of the TC you still have this problem and it's in NO WAY driver issues.....than, that sucks, VW must have made your car vastly different than mine......:iono:

Not trying to be a dick, trying to offer some advice and help.

DSG may have other problems, which I really don't, but it's still a big one in my book. I agree with what you said though.

 

[xd-data-ii]

good point. the first way to fix this is better knowledge how the engine here works. I admit it, I have some learning to do.

If you are at around 1000 rpm and just hit the accelerator you are not going to get anything out. I don't know the exact figures and could be way off but here are examples.
The turbo will spool around say 1650 rpm and the max torque soon after around 1800 rpm and I believe continues for a while before dropping off. Max power may be over 5000 rpm.
So if you are that slow and at 1000 rpm and in second, I would never drop to first, just push in the clutch pedal a bit to slip the clutch and press the gas pedal to bring the rpm up over 1600 and release the clutch pedal and push further on gas pedal you should have the right start to get the car responding faster and launching off without getting bogged down and the feeling of nothing happening.

 

[NTT5418]

1700RPM was an exaggeration by the person that said that, I would hope, but you should use higher RPM than 700 at idle to start moving especially in an emergency situation.

I disagree with the bolded part and here's why.

First, there are two HUGE flaws in driving style that MUST be completed to follow you're instructions to replicate this "problem".

A) Leaving TC on.

B) I would have to decelerate with the clutch depressed.

Now, I am not really sure what you are trying to say here....as it seems to contradict itself;



So, how do I depress the clutch, but never touch the clutch, and then hammer the gas? What gear are you in here?

See, this is the problem, when I brake, I downshift. So in your example of going 20 (probably in 2nd gear) I would blip the throttle and then hit the brake, depress the clutch and select 1st gear then release the clutch with a rev matched shift. When I get to 5MPH and hit the gas I am in 1st and take off.

I'll throw it back at you guys, for those saying that TC has nothing to do with it, you're wrong. TC uses the brakes to slow the front wheels (power wheels) when it senses slip, I don't know how hard it is to understand that brakes clamping on the rotors causes the vehicle to SLOW. When this happens at launch it will feel like lag or bogging down.

There are three things contributing to this issue on the manual, DSG guys have other problems.

1) TC (Its real, it's there, get used to it. Turn it off.)

2) Design of a turbo engine, full power is NOT available below 2000RPM and any power at 700RPM is negligible.

3) Driving skill with engaging clutch and proper downshifting

I drive the same car you guys do and I do NOT HAVE THIS PROBLEM. Ever. So you can either tell me I am wrong, it can't POSSIBLY be these things and continue to just complain about it which will not change a thing. Or you can attempt to take some advice (isn't that the point of these forums, to ask for advice and accept it?) and maybe, just maybe, solve your problem.

If you refuse to even attempt the suggestions than oh well, but if you decide to make some attempts you may just get rid of this problem. If after a week or two of proper downshifting and disengaging of the TC you still have this problem and it's in NO WAY driver issues.....than, that sucks, VW must have made your car vastly different than mine......:iono:

Not trying to be a dick, trying to offer some advice and help.

I agree with most of your post.

I see almost no difference with the TC off though, and I do not have this issue when downshifting (even though I heel-tow just fine). I see it when first taking off. Not always, just in certain situations. If I get the car rolling normally then mash the gas, I get a hesitation, then WHOOSH. And it really doesn't feel like a turbo spooling whoosh, it feels like an electronic system kicked off and the power was allowed to go to the wheels.

Just curious...anyone with the Euro-spec car have this issue when stability control is deactivated?

 

[DrGonzo]

I drove a manual for a year and never had this problem. Then I totaled it (or rather the person who rear-ended me did) and I decided to replace it with a DSG. After six months all I can say is huge mistake. And please, please don't tell me I need to learn the car.

 

[FSTSNAL]

Not sure about this issue. Only time I have noticed it is when I am very 1st driving in the morning. Pull out from the curb and maybe the 1st two times I have to accelerate. After that I do not notice the throttle lag while driving.

 

[e-dub1]

It seems to me like some MT drivers here are reluctant to let the clutch slip even the slightest bit. A clutch is a wear-and-tear part, just like brakes and tires, and if you want to keep your car past 60k miles, you should expect to replace it at some point.

You really don't need to worry about excessive clutch wear from driving with slip. If you let it slip too much, you WILL smell it.

16 years of manual and the DSG is the first box that I prefer over "doing it myself". The only lag I get is from TC, period.

 

[Mckidd]

If you are expecting big pickup at a few mph down at 800 or 900 rpm you aren't gonna get it. These engines operate differently than normal aspirated engines as you know.
I still think some of it requires people to adapt their driving habits and style as well.

This issue is cannot be attributed to turbo lag or traction control because it is not present in the 09G Tiguan with the same engine. The engine produces more than enough torque even before the turbo is spooling to accelerate faster than what the dead pedal space induces.

What is odd is that the issue appears to be tied to the road speed and not engine speed. If you engage the clutch slowly with zero throttle input you can creep along up to 10mph with the engine at idle. If you wait until you are closer to 10mph the lag is much less noticeable, but the engine is still idling. If you apply the throttle at 5mph the lag is much more noticeable.

This issue is definitely electronically related. I agree you can mitigate it to a certain extent by slipping the clutch with RPM closer to 1100-1200, but that is a shitty way to drive in a parking lot.

Mike

 

[sikkony]

Is this a TSI/MK6 thing? I don't seem to have this "lag" problem on my MK5 FSI. And it's both MT/DSG?

 

[btufail]

This issue is cannot be attributed to turbo lag or traction control because it is not present in the 09G Tiguan with the same engine.

I was about to ask that same question. Does anyone notice this in any of the other 2.0L engines? Like any of the audi's, the new beetle turbo, or the GLI?

 

[Shifty6]

I monkeyed around with this today. The issue I experienced was this: let clutch out, start rolling, get up to 5-10 mph, let off throttle - coasting, then roll into throttle - lag lag lag, rpm climbs slowly, then whoooaa!

I THINK it is just the throttle by wire deal. I KNOW it is not traction control. It is POSSIBLE it could be turbo lag, although I don't believe it to be. I don't believe it to be turbo based because I can manipulate it as Im letting the clutch out, or prior to engagement, and it seems to be more prevailent as I roll out of the throttle at low speeds. At higher speeds (above 25) I can roll out then stomp on it, and it takes off as expected just fine.

You don't need to learn to drive, but you do need to drive THIS car. I found it odd, and still get caught out by it occassionally. I had a car with skip-shift, same deal I had to learn to drive THAT car.