Mod for mod. Any forced induction vehicle will walk away from an N/A In terms of power for dollar...
Thank you. Plus Vtecs have little low end tq. Even with high HP, the tq numbers will usually be much less than HP. 2.0TSI has a much wider power band that is available much earlier. A SI has to have a turbo or a supercharger to really be in the same mod class. That also requires much more work than an ecu tune and a downpipe/TBE install for a TSI Stage 2.
You just contradicted yourself there. If its fast enough to beat one, how come you were only neck and neck? I'd love to see your dyno sheet for those numbers you just quoted. Video or it didn't happen. How much does it cost for all those mods? I bet its closer to $2000 or more.
As you can see what the GTI lacks in HP for its weight, it much more than makes up for with torque.
Lets have a few examples here: :fighting0030:
#1: The non mod person. The majority of people who buy GTIs and Civic SI aren't going to modify their cars at all for warranty reasons and/or they just don't care about any more power. In which case GTI > SI. Sorry, but the numbers don't lie.
#2: The budget modifier. Budget: $600. Type of person who wants a bit better than OEM. Not as common, but still a lot of these type of people out there. Stage 1 for GTI. GTI>SI. (Plus you just agreed with this one.)
#3: Even less common. People who want about the best you can get without more major (turbo, etc) mods. Stage 2 can easily be had for the smart shopper for under $1000 total (including Stage 1). GTI>SI.
#4: The rare option. People who have around $3000 (Total) to spend. A smart shopper can get a K04 for under $2000. APRs numbers for this is 356hp/351tq. (http://www.goapr.com/products/turbo_trans_20_tsi_k04.html) Happens to be on sale right now brand new for under $2400. Can easily be had for closer to $2000 or less if used. Likely still GTI>SI. But I admit I don't know as much what you can do to a FA5 mod wise for less than $3000, but I still highly doubt you will get numbers that high for that amount of cash. Even if you supercharge or turbo one. I'd be interested to see some numbers if you still want to claim SI>GTI on that one.
#5: The extremely rare option. I agree on this one When you get up into the 400hp + range, it can cost more to modify a GTI. But how many people get up there? Few for either cars. :iono:
Most people don't spend much more than $1000 if they are going to mod their cars.
Seriously why are you even here? Seems like you're just trolling because I've seen you doing this stuff on other threads, mainly in the vs section. :thumbdown: I'm not on your Honda forums talking shit about your cars like I'm the authority on everything and about how ours are better. Even though they are. Even if you have numbers to back up your claims (which you won't for examples 1-3 for sure), nobody here really cares.
End of day, bro. Its personal preference and what actually happens on the street. We like our cars better for many reasons. That is why we are on GolfMk6.com, not ithinkiknoweverythingaboutvwsbecauseidriveamodifiedhonda.com. :w00t:
So, although it might cost a little more at first to get the SI up to a tuned GTIs level, to throw a broad blanket over it and say a tuned GTI will always beat any n/a SI is just flat out false. Plus, i'm not a fan of doing cost comparisons. Who cares if one person spent a little more than another, we are talking bolt on tuned SI vs bolt on tuned GTI's, not who spent $1000 less than the other person.
Fair enough. My comment was based off an earlier account of "fully bolted" fa5 vs stage 2 and the stage 2 took the civic by a couple car lengths. I don't recall if headers were involved but I do remember intake exhaust and tune.
How about addl mods on the GTI, though? W/M, IC, intake, TOP and TIP. IHI Stage 2's can make anywhere between 240 and 260whp. That's a broad range to be called a driver's race. Edit: don't forget the 2dr/4dr 100lb difference.
butchered by autocucumber
Mod for mod. Any forced induction vehicle will walk away from an N/A In terms of power for dollar...
Thank you. Plus Vtecs have little low end tq. Even with high HP, the tq numbers will usually be much less than HP. 2.0TSI has a much wider power band that is available much earlier. A SI has to have a turbo or a supercharger to really be in the same mod class. That also requires much more work than an ecu tune and a downpipe/TBE install for a TSI Stage 2.
Modded GTI > Modded Civic SI
Spend the same money on both cars and the GTI will be faster every time. I'd nobody can spend less than $600 on ANY stock SI have gains close to 40hp and 60tq. NO WAY.
/ thread.
idk i think you're just talking man. you sound like you're speculating. but in general si mods are cheaper than gti mods. and youre budget modding plan isn't ideal at all. you're missing a lot of supporting mods. that reminds me of a guy that asked about going k04 with apr's stock downpipe file. yeah you can do it, but it doesnt make sense. your motor mounts will fail, you'll spin your wheels, etc. if that's how you mod then go for it but it's not realistic.
and when you say most people put less than $1000 in their car who are you talking about. not on this or any other car forum. if you mean joe on the street with altezza lights and wheels from sears then you can't be serious comparing the two. a tune and coils will put you at $1k+ even with your "budget" setup.
Again, why are we completely ignoring the fact that the GTI costs AT LEAST $1500 more starting MSRP? If we're truly talking $ for $, the Si should have that much extra to play around with.
I don't think MSRP should be part of this because you aren't solely paying for an engine when buying a car, you pay for the whole package. There are many things that come on a GTI that bump up the price that has nothing to do performance wise. Just because it's a VW you are paying a premium.
Also if I am not mistaken don't K04 GTIs hit 12s? You can K04 a git for less then 5k-6k.
And I really am unsure what ko4 GTIs typically run. I'm sure it is possible to get them into the 12s. But to do it I'm sure the cost is closer to 5 or 6k then you think.
When someone is arguing performance for your dollar, MSRP absolutely should be taken into consideration.
But like I've said several times, I think it's a stupid argument regardless.
I agree the GTI definitely has some worthwhile features/quality that bump up the price.
And I really am unsure what ko4 GTIs typically run. I'm sure it is possible to get them into the 12s. But to do it I'm sure the cost is closer to 5 or 6k then you think.
The DC race header is actually one of the weaker performing headers for the k20.