S3 FMIC VS APR IC in K04

[corrado917]

This thread is awesome! Lots of arguing due brands Fanboying
So, at the end on the K04 only

-S3 better for short sprints due less pressure drops that translates in quicker reaction?

-APR better for endurance due its size? Less noticeable pressure drops in hot weather?

-FMIC ( Neuspeed / Godspeed / other ) Best design,

Note: parasitical weight from Neuspeed, since it doesn’t work as an aux. IC
Thickness of Godspeed IC to take advantage of its location, working as an aux. IC to the stock location one, how much of pressure drop may it have?

 

[Jeffs2013GTI]

This thread is awesome! Lots of arguing due brands Fanboying
So, at the end on the K04 only

-S3 better for short sprints due less pressure drops that translates in quicker reaction?

-APR better for endurance due its size? Less noticeable pressure drops in hot weather?

-FMIC ( Neuspeed / Godspeed / other ) Best design,

Note: parasitical weight from Neuspeed, since it doesn’t work as an aux. IC
Thickness of Godspeed IC to take advantage of its location, working as an aux. IC to the stock location one, how much of pressure drop may it have?

Nuespeed FMIC I think would net you the most consistent power delivery. Getting fresh air to the IC would net you the most HP gain IMO.

The APR unit is very nice, dont get me wrong, But if you live where ambient air temps get north of 80F on a regular basis? I think the FMIC would be the way to go.

Maybe someone can email APR and ask why they chose the type of IC they have vs a FMIC? I would be curious to their reply?


Jeff

 

[XGC75]

Please explain

Leave the butthurt at home please. I agree that sandwiching the IC isn't the best idea for the charge air cooling but when VW engineers looked at their options, they chose this. They certainly wanted a tall and flat IC for the optimizations I've already outlined, so putting it under the bumper bar was out of consideration. Maybe they didn't want to let the engine overheat in hot weather so they put the radiator in front.

 

[Injen1us]

Nuespeed FMIC I think would net you the most consistent power delivery. Getting fresh air to the IC would net you the most HP gain IMO.

Jeff

Exactly... opinion. Just that.

Until you show me some logs that indicate Neuspeed's FMIC (which is half the volume of APR, Wagner, SPM etc) decrease the IAT and intake air density greater than that of its SMIC competitors this conversation is really pointless.

Apart from the pain in the ass to swap the thing the placement is not a big deal (when referring to aftermarket products). VW did that for a reason on some cost/benefit chart somewhere years ago. The same reason Subaru puts their TMIC right above a 800 degree turbo and exhaust manifold.

The fanboyDOM is soo funny on this topic...

 

[kakluote]

I am confused if i need to clean the apr ic or the pressure drop

Is normal that cleaning will not help

 

[thegave]

I think Arin posted in another thread that the VW engineers put a lot of thought into designing the front end of the Golf so that maximum air is directed at the rad cluster and putting an FMIC out front interferes with that.

Then again, it was Arin.

 

[ChrisB1]

I wouldn't use either one and go with the Nuespeed FMIC kit personally.

Why O Why VW would you sandwich the IC in between 2 other heat sinks? WTF were you guys thinking? :iono:


Jeff

What is the IAT on the Neuspeed versus the APR intercooler on any given day? A while back when I was researching intercoolers, finding hen's teeth and rooster eggs was easier than finding temperature measurements on the various aftermarket intercooler solutions.

 

[barische]

There is a reason why VW did it. It's the most efficient. That's also why APR didn't come out with a true FMIC. Because it's probably not as efficient. VW spends billions doing R&D. What do you spend?

Yeah okay, if they really did we wouldnt be having problems like timing tensioner, water pumps, intake manifold, etc

Cheapness: using golf spindle vs tt spindle (roll center)

 

[zrickety]

I don't even believe FMICs are better than the sandwich style. I would rather not have the FMIC.

LOL. Sandwich style is all about packaging, so they can squeeze more parts into a smaller area. We would all have front mount if money were no object.

 

[nick n]

I think Arin posted in another thread that the VW engineers put a lot of thought into designing the front end of the Golf so that maximum air is directed at the rad cluster and putting an FMIC out front interferes with that.

Then again, it was Arin.

Coolant temps are more critical than charged air temps so it makes sense. The ecu can't make hot coolant cool as fast as it can regulate charged air temps. sure vw did a lot of r&d but bottom line these cars are 25k. Best in class tho

 

[XGC75]

LOL. Sandwich style is all about packaging, so they can squeeze more parts into a smaller area. We would all have front mount if money were no object.

Not true at all. Read my post above. Tall and flat is how you best optimize the efficiency to pressure drop ratio. You want good cooling with minimal pressure drop? You need short cold-side travel and high frontal area. FMICs cannot support this when they have to fit underneath the bumper bar.

 

[Jeffs2013GTI]

Leave the butthurt at home please. I agree that sandwiching the IC isn't the best idea for the charge air cooling but when VW engineers looked at their options, they chose this. They certainly wanted a tall and flat IC for the optimizations I've already outlined, so putting it under the bumper bar was out of consideration. Maybe they didn't want to let the engine overheat in hot weather so they put the radiator in front.

So your staying home? Who here is butthurt? mmmmm Truth hurts doesn't it.

I could care less. Common sense usually prevails here.


Jeff

 

[Jeffs2013GTI]

Exactly... opinion. Just that.

Until you show me some logs that indicate Neuspeed's FMIC (which is half the volume of APR, Wagner, SPM etc) decrease the IAT and intake air density greater than that of its SMIC competitors this conversation is really pointless.

Apart from the pain in the ass to swap the thing the placement is not a big deal (when referring to aftermarket products). VW did that for a reason on some cost/benefit chart somewhere years ago. The same reason Subaru puts their TMIC right above a 800 degree turbo and exhaust manifold.

The fanboyDOM is soo funny on this topic...

Yet you fail to mention Subies have direct air flow to their IC's. SSOOO....your point is irrelevant.

Lets do this. If your willing to come out to my area. I will buy a Nuespeed IC have it iinstalled, you buy what you want, we both dyno our cars on a bone stock car otherwise, see who prevails?

Im in. You?


Jeff

 

[Jeffs2013GTI]

All of this has nothing to do with "brand" why do people keep saying Nuespeed High Horse? Means nothing, its just that they are one of the only companies that have a true FMIC kit for the MK6. Do you know of others? The Forge Twin Cooler thing, is a twin core set up, not a sole FMIC.

That is why I bring that particular brand up. Nothing less nothing more.

Im all for a test if people want to put up. I will buy and have a FMIC installed, my car is completely stock otherwise. If someone else has an upgraded OEM location IC and wants to do some dyno pulls, and run at Chuckawalla Raceway and check inlet temps via VAGCOM and put this to a rest I am in.

Just to see.


Jeff

 

[XGC75]

So your staying home? Who here is butthurt? mmmmm Truth hurts doesn't it.

I could care less. Common sense usually prevails here.


Jeff

I'm what now? :lol: Yes you're completely correct about whatever you say about me! It hurts so much

I'm probably not an engineer, then. Probably know nothing about heat exchanger design. Probably don't work for a company that has anything to do with the manufacturing of consumer durable goods. You know you're right, I probably don't own a GTI or do anything for this community on a regular basis, either.


I'm alllll alone for Christmas, woe is me