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APR K04 VW Golf GTI vs Chevrolet Comaro ZL1

KOA789

Go Kart Champion
@Koa789: Please enlighten me as to how a particular vehicle's trap speed will indicate exactly how the said car will perform from a 40, 60, 100 roll and so forth..? The MK6 gti has pretty significant traction issues even at stage 1 power levels from a dig. Of course you can loosely gauge what a car will do 30-120mph from it's quarter mile trap, but I think power to weight ratio alone is a better indicator of this. One of my best friends has an e90 335i 6MT with the N54 twin-turbo engine. Those cars run anywhere from a 13.3-13.8 factory stock and trap 106ish. Now explain to me this; my car is stage 1 APR on factory tires, I know for a fact that from a dig he'd pull me, but whenever we run from 40 or 50 to 120 it's always that I'm just ahead by half a car. Power to weight ratio tells all, forget about quarter mile trap when considered in conjunction to roll races, there are too many unforeseen factors involved.

1. Trap speed is a good indicator of a car's acceleration over the course of a longer distance.

2. Power to weight ratio plays more of a role from a dig then from a roll. Gearing, power band, and aerodynamics are more of a factor then a power to weight ratio.

3. Your buddy can't drive. A 335 traps higher in the 1/4 then a GTI, makes more power, has a faster time to any speed from any starting speed and has a better power to weight ratio. Even if your power to weight ratio argument was valid, it's invalidated by your own example.

I don't know what else to tell you. A member on here (TSiUG) runs 12.38@112mph, I ran a 12.32@115. Almost identical times, but a 3mph difference in trap speed. If we were to go from a roll, who do you think would win?
 

rquinn19

Ready to race!
1. Trap speed is a good indicator of a car's acceleration over the course of a longer distance.

2. Power to weight ratio plays more of a role from a dig then from a roll. Gearing, power band, and aerodynamics are more of a factor then a power to weight ratio.

3. Your buddy can't drive. A 335 traps higher in the 1/4 then a GTI, makes more power, has a faster time to any speed from any starting speed and has a better power to weight ratio. Even if your power to weight ratio argument was valid, it's invalidated by your own example.

I don't know what else to tell you. A member on here (TSiUG) runs 12.38@112mph, I ran a 12.32@115. Almost identical times, but a 3mph difference in trap speed. If we were to go from a roll, who do you think would win?

I think you both have valid arguments in regards to trap speed. But I get his argument in that a lot of times when a car runs their best et their trap may not be as fast as other traps they've had with slower et's.

I know from personal experience my best et in my MKIV was 13.6 and that was only @100 while I had numerous traps faster than that with et's in the 14.0 range.

Sometimes when you do nail that 0-60 you get down the track so fast your et isn't as fast as it would be if you spun though first and then started pulling.
 

Vasher

Passed Driver's Ed
I think you both have valid arguments in regards to trap speed. But I get his argument in that a lot of times when a car runs their best et their trap may not be as fast as other traps they've had with slower et's.

I know from personal experience my best et in my MKIV was 13.6 and that was only @100 while I had numerous traps faster than that with et's in the 14.0 range.

Sometimes when you do nail that 0-60 you get down the track so fast your et isn't as fast as it would be if you spun though first and then started pulling.

^This... And what it equates to.

Low traction off the line will yield a higher, but also a higher trap (more often than not).

A car with known traction issues of the line with a lower trap (K04 GTi) against a car with a 1/4 mile traction advantage (eg; ZL1) that puts down a higher trap (we're talking what the car is capable of, not what average drivers generally put down. Don't forget it's easier to run from a roll than to rip a high hp/tq car off the line, whether it's rwd or fwd) will be at an ever GREATER disadvantage from a roll.

We don't know what his GTi runs with his current mods, so that could all be bullmallarkyhogwash and he just straight up whooped some ZL1 ass.
 

BAM its mitch

Go Kart Champion
For these, you can take driver out of the equation once you hit high speed because the shifts are so far apart you really do get a chance to see car vs. car. Power to weight also becomes less of a factor as you get to high speed and it becomes about aerodynamics and power.

I'm thinking the ZL1 had some mods in the trunk that we didn't get to see...probably mods that look something like this

 

Sspcivic31

Drag Race Newbie
In simplest terms trap speed=horsepower.
More horsepower = pulling away at speed.
Anybody that thinks there car is so much faster from a roll than x car try this:
Let the other car have the move.
Just let them go first, then you hit it.
I assure you, you will be in for a rude awakening.

As far as the trap speed fluctuating from traction, that is correct large amounts of wheel spin creates artificially high mph. All that would really mean is that the car doing that is even slower from a roll in an actual race.

Watch the videos a few more times. My opinion is that what you see in the first few runs is the gti driver reacting quicker to the honks with the throttle. Towards the end the zl1 driver has caught on and you don't see as much disparity. Either way I still contend both cars trap in the 115mph range in the quarter.
 

XGC75

Go Kart Champion
Did you see the comment about the hill? The zl1 is pushing around a lot of weight so the added load of the incline will have less effect on him than on the GTI. You're attributing too much to the jump off the roll.

butchered by auto cucumber
 

rawbdog

Go Kart Champion
just showed my boss this video. and then he says " well i guess he should have bought a GT500 instead." i wanted to punch him in the face.
 

FL_GTI

Ready to race!
1. Trap speed is a good indicator of a car's acceleration over the course of a longer distance.

2. Power to weight ratio plays more of a role from a dig then from a roll. Gearing, power band, and aerodynamics are more of a factor then a power to weight ratio.

3. Your buddy can't drive. A 335 traps higher in the 1/4 then a GTI, makes more power, has a faster time to any speed from any starting speed and has a better power to weight ratio. Even if your power to weight ratio argument was valid, it's invalidated by your own example.

I don't know what else to tell you. A member on here (TSiUG) runs 12.38@112mph, I ran a 12.32@115. Almost identical times, but a 3mph difference in trap speed. If we were to go from a roll, who do you think would win?

1: Valid as it is natural physics, of course you can gauge a vehicle's acceleration rate from a quarter-mile trap, but I don't think this is accurate over a one mile course or even longer. P/W ratio and other variables stated in your second point prove this true.

2: Power to weight ratio plays the most crucial role regardless of the circumstances of a race. It's one of the benchmark comparison measurement, as is quarter mile testing. I'd think gearing has much more of an effect on 1/4 mile runs than a highway race as in the video. Power-curve and aerodynamics definitely have a significant impact here, definitely not saying you are wrong with that statement.

3: Actually, my buddy can drive, we've ran multiple times and it's always an extremely close race. Roll racing is so much more simplified than a proper launch/dig race. My argument is this exactly; the 335i traps higher and runs faster numbers from the factory than a stage 1 GTI, yet when compared in a roll race it's very neutral and comes down to shift timing, take-off speed, etc...

I'm definitely not saying your statements are invalid, but, I think you have to look at the grand scheme of things and keep an open mind.

In simplest terms trap speed=horsepower.
More horsepower = pulling away at speed.
Anybody that thinks there car is so much faster from a roll than x car try this:
Let the other car have the move.
Just let them go first, then you hit it.
I assure you, you will be in for a rude awakening.

As far as the trap speed fluctuating from traction, that is correct large amounts of wheel spin creates artificially high mph. All that would really mean is that the car doing that is even slower from a roll in an actual race.

Watch the videos a few more times. My opinion is that what you see in the first few runs is the gti driver reacting quicker to the honks with the throttle. Towards the end the zl1 driver has caught on and you don't see as much disparity. Either way I still contend both cars trap in the 115mph range in the quarter.

I understand trap speed directly correlates to horsepower as well as P/W ratio :w00t:. We've run from where each takes the hit and it's exactly as you say, whomever takes the hit wins the run essentially.

Theoretical P/W Ratios
Stock 335i: 0.0862214708 (306 CrankHp, 3549lbs.)
Stage 1 GTI: 0.0886618326 (269 CrankHp, 3034lbs.)

Couldn't the video just indicate that the GTI is experience cooling and power efficiency issues?
 

Sspcivic31

Drag Race Newbie
So the hill really? So downhill then the gti really gives it to him? :)
I agree that the run from the hill looked much more even than the first couple.
Why is there no grasping for straws emoticon?
Oh and he should have bought a gt500. :)

watch the video again and watch the reflection of the gti in the camaro's door each time they run.
 
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EvoX1

Ready to race!
GTI go a loooong way with that little K04, im really impressed with your setup OP.

On a side note. GM dun fucked up giving this boat only 580 horsepower, with that suspension and tire setup it can handle more. 13+ Shelby's are trapping 125-128 stock, even with regular drivers.
 
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