DSG or stick?

[VEGASVWGTI]

Complete rubbish and BS, unless you are strictly talking about DSG in AUTO mode. Again, read my posts.

Interesting. I think we may be missing each other.

Let me try to address some of your points more directly then:

The torque and power capabilities of the DSG are irrelevant to my point. It does not matter how much power it can handle. If it is not running, what good does it do you? This was a statement about reliability not power capabilities.

Considering you reside in the North East and you began citing your racing credentials is a clear indication my point has been missed as relates the performance of these vehicles in the heat. This would be quite consistent with a lack of experience in this area and you as a result are not to blame. It is simply expected. If you understood you would not have wasted your time citing what you believe makes you an authority on the matter.

I absolutely am talking about the DSG in AUTO mode. You are 100% correct. My point is why would anyone pay $1500 or more not including the resulting maintenance costs and long demonstrated reliability concerns for a transmission that forces manual driving in hot weather conditions under load? Isn't the idea that this premium paid would eliminate that necessity? DSG owners love to cite race cars as a justifaction for their transmission choice, but truth be told no paddle shifted super car has to worry about the performance considerations of their dual clutch, four banger econobox and whether they will have to shut off the A/C at the next stop light when it is 120 degrees either. :lol: Furthermore manually controlled or not there is something fundamentally different about simulating the shifts of a true manual in the DSG. Something weird and altogether not as satisfying and it is more than simply the restlessness of a bored left foot. This is the primary reason for driving the DSG for what is really is...a great automatic, instead of making it do what a 6 speed manual is made to do every shift of its zero service life. It just will never be my choice again in a climate where three to five months of the year are well in the triple digits.

At this point I will quote myself from another active thread started by a DSG owner just to make sure my position on this is clear:

I would not bother opening the hood. The fan runs for 15 minutes after the car is shut off regardless for me.

I am currently facing 110 degrees or so on the regular now and it will be hotter next month. My suggestion is to drive normally and do not rag on it. If a manual then shift 3-6 around 3200 RPM's and below 4500. This will help keep the shifts smooth with the A/C on and get you through the hesitation in the powerband between 1500 and 2900 RPM's when under heavy load. This heat combined with the A/C places a huge load on our cars and your gas mileage, at least 4-6 mpg penalty. Take it easy.

If you have been sitting in heavy traffic or got a bit carried away prior to arriving to your destination, before shutting it off let the car idle for 60-80 seconds or so minimum.

If you are driving a DSG in heavy traffic, DO NOT drive in D mode. It is much too jerky and it is quite unpleasant. Drive in S or M and use the gear shift to move up and down 1-2-3-2-3-2-1 ect. This will help keep things smooth and all your passengers can get the cold lemonade in their mouths instead of down their shirts.

Take it easy my fellow hot weather brethern, put on the shades and crank up the A/C. This is the price we pay to not need winter tires nor dig our cars out of the snow in winter.

I am fairly confident by reading your posts you are intelligent enough to get the jist of my presentation despite your desires for semantical hair splitting to somehow invalidate the points of my presentation. Don't get me wrong my friend, I am not however saying I do not understand the reason for the passion. I too once wasted $1500 on a DSG before I realized that which performed best and most consistently came standard as it should.

 

[ghostwind]

I'm not sure why so lengthy. I was replying to two separate statements, pretty clearly I thought:

1. "People who tune cars with DSG's are brave!" - For which I said that the DSG can actually handle more power from mods than the manual. My first point in my initial reply.

2. "Terrible hot weather performance/underpowered upshifts under load." To which I said maybe only in AUTO mode and that doesn't follow you statement about how the DSG doesn't perform with "consistency or precision" as a whole and the issue of "control". You have the same control with DSG as you do in a manual was my point. If you choose to always drive the DSG in AUTO mode, then yeah, you relinquish that control, but that argument fails here for obvious reasons. That's your choice, but I drive mine in manual mode most of the time. I only use it in AUTO when in traffic really. If I wanted an AUTO, I would have gotten one. You are, as I said, one who probably drove in AUTO mode all the time, so I have to ask, why did you even get DSG?

As to your point about why would someone pay a $1500 premium + small maintenance costs for a DSG, well that's again individual preference and everyone has a valid reason. No need to re-hash what they are.

As to your other point about a manual feeling more engaging, OK. But that is individual preference as I said in my last point. It's all it is. I like taking my 911 and going through the gears at times. But I'm also used to driving cars on track with sequential gearboxes, so I like driving the DSG that way too.

Last my point was lost it seems. I said I have plenty (10+ years) of racing and driving differnent cars with different transmissions in much harsher conditions than LV heat. Yes the LV heat will make the AUTO not perform its best. That doesn't mean DSG is crap or that you have less control. You don't. That is the main point. If someone wants to get a DSG and only drive it in AUTO mode, then OK, but then they would never even consider a manual car to begin with. See my point?

 

[RacingManiac]

Random musing, I've had a few instance now in the last couple of weeks when the DSG did a few rather unusual, and jerky shift. Nothing really stand out about their circumstances other than both are accelerating away from a stop from a right turn....I think it may just be those part throttle hesitation when DSG is try to guess your next move....

 

[SwiftGTI]

Actually the DSG's shortcoming is that it DOESN'T hold gears in manual mode. It will auto-upshift at redline for you. Not good for the track...

Ah, that's disappointing. I haven't experienced that yet, but I thought the DSG would hold gears in M mode (with the exception of the kick-down switch). Does the DSG upshift quickly enough at redline so as not to upset the balance of the car during hard corners?

 

[Ahrie]

Random musing, I've had a few instance now in the last couple of weeks when the DSG did a few rather unusual, and jerky shift. Nothing really stand out about their circumstances other than both are accelerating away from a stop from a right turn....I think it may just be those part throttle hesitation when DSG is try to guess your next move....

You're sure it's not your stability control kicking in? Mine wants to cut my power all the time.. since I like taking fast right turns from a stop. Turn your stability control off and try. When it cuts power, it ends up feeling like jerky shifting.

 

[Ahrie]

Ah, that's disappointing. I haven't experienced that yet, but I thought the DSG would hold gears in M mode (with the exception of the kick-down switch). Does the DSG upshift quickly enough at redline so as not to upset the balance of the car during hard corners?

It will hold in M mode. You just have to watch how long you maintain your redline. I'm sure you guys have both played with normal D and S. If you floor it in S, it doesn't shift for me until about 7800. It chooses on it's own to let me redline for a while. When I autox'd, it allowed me to maintain 2nd throughout the entire course in M mode. In D, it obviously shifts WAY earlier, it only lets you bounce into the red.

 

[que1]

Ill wieght in from someone who never drove a stick about 2 months ago. I learned on a Yaris and the any fears I had about the GTI went out the window as soon as I felt how smooth it was. I went out and got one and I when I think of all it adds to the experience I dont see any reason why a person would get a sporty car without a stick. On top of all that, its cheaper. It seems like a no brainer to me.

 

[RacingManiac]

You're sure it's not your stability control kicking in? Mine wants to cut my power all the time.. since I like taking fast right turns from a stop. Turn your stability control off and try. When it cuts power, it ends up feeling like jerky shifting.

When ESC is on I can usually tell with the lights in my face....though perhaps if it was just in for a fraction it might be true....

My tires are getting more warn.....

 

[RacingManiac]

It will hold in M mode. You just have to watch how long you maintain your redline. I'm sure you guys have both played with normal D and S. If you floor it in S, it doesn't shift for me until about 7800. It chooses on it's own to let me redline for a while. When I autox'd, it allowed me to maintain 2nd throughout the entire course in M mode. In D, it obviously shifts WAY earlier, it only lets you bounce into the red.

Ditto here, the only thing for me to remember autox-ing is not to be overzealous on the gas coming out of slow turn and trip the kick-down....otherwise it holds 2nd pretty well the whole way around in S....

 

[ghostwind]

DSG owners love to cite race cars as a justifaction for their transmission choice, but truth be told no paddle shifted super car has to worry about the performance considerations of their dual clutch, four banger econobox and whether they will have to shut off the A/C at the next stop light when it is 120 degrees either. :lol:

I missed this one, and it's actually an important point here. This is why I cited my experience in extreme conditions racing. When pushed hard, you ABSOLUTELY worry about your transmission going bad - yes, race cars, never mind supercars which are even worse when pushed. You worry in the back of your mind about everything and anything going bad, which is why heat and weight are the foremost things you plan for when racing and pushing. I can't tell you how many trannies explode and fail during a race - dual-clutch, sequential, or manual. The percentage of failure is actually larger than on a street car with a dual clutch like the GTI, M3, S4, Porsche PDK, etc. So while a driver is not worried when driving (because your focus has to be 100% on driving), in reality it happens all the time. Yes the parts are stronger, but so is the stress. Street cars are mostly babied (despite owners who claim to push them hard) and never experience very strong conditions. You'd be surprised how much an experienced driver can push a car like a GTI. I have friends that I take in the car (which is stock except for APR Stage 1) who are simply surprised at how hard the car can be pushed and how high the limits are. Most think pushing is about 0-60 and jerky driving. Most think they are pushing close to the limit, when in fact they are WELL under. And from what supercars I've seen on track, they are hardly ever pushed very hard, mainly due to fear of wrecking the car or drivers who aren't used to high limits but have high limit cars, or both..

 

[SwiftGTI]

It will hold in M mode. You just have to watch how long you maintain your redline. I'm sure you guys have both played with normal D and S. If you floor it in S, it doesn't shift for me until about 7800. It chooses on it's own to let me redline for a while. When I autox'd, it allowed me to maintain 2nd throughout the entire course in M mode. In D, it obviously shifts WAY earlier, it only lets you bounce into the red.

Awesome, that's good to hear. I'm still in the break-in period so haven't taken it to redline yet.

 

[ghostwind]

This is one of the first things I tested and confirmed before my purchase. DSG will absolutely auto-upshift at redline. Only Porsche's PDK holds (or depending on setting) bounces off the rev-limiter. BMW, VW, Audi, etc. all behave the same way with the "kickdown" and auto-upshift in MANUAL DSG/DCT mode. I know there exists a DSG flash that will change this behavior if you are interested. Since I don't plan to track this car as I have others, I don't care. But it will auto-upshift. S mode is pretty useless IMHO.

http://www.hpamotorsport.com/dsg.htm

And Revo has a flash as well.

Like I said, unless you plan on tracking this car, no need for the flash IMHO.

 

[vdoobie]

manual

 

[dbest6808]

Just out of curiosity why would you want to redline and hold redline for a prolonged period of time? The car is making less power at that rpm unless you’re going larger turbo. Aside from the increase potential risk of damage to components its pretty clear you are making the most power below redline between 500k and 6500k stage 2 and lower for stage 1.
I don’t get it.

 

[pressure drop]

Just out of curiosity why would you want to redline and hold redline for a prolonged period of time? The car is making less power at that rpm unless you’re going larger turbo. Aside from the increase potential risk of damage to components its pretty clear you are making the most power below redline between 500k and 6500k stage 2 and lower for stage 1.
I don’t get it.

To scare your passengers, duh.