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Jerking and misfire with rough engine sound at low speed

Ash17

Passed Driver's Ed
2010 GTI DSG 89,000 Miles
Been having an on going problem at low speed and light throttle where my car jerks and misfires. The engine also makes a gnarly rough sound while this jerking is happening. Seems to only happen after the engine has warmed up with more than 10 or so minutes driving. For example, I dont experience it on a light, short trip to the gas station down the street, but on slightly longer more "spirited" car rides and especially if I have to accelerate hard to get on the highway, when I'm pulling back into my garage (or where ever I'm parking) going about 5mph or slower with light throttle, the engine changes tones and sounds really rough accompanied by the jerking. Almost sounds like a rough diesel truck. The bad engine sound and jerking stop as soon as I let off of the throttle. I have no CEL or any other lights on the dash. Anyone have any ideas ?
 

Blue K04

Passed Driver's Ed
Maybe a bad coil?
 

uglybastard

Autocross Champion
bad coil would throw a code.

this sounds like the beginning of a P2015 - if you get a code im willing to bet that might be it. could be anything related to the intake manifold, including but not limited to: carbon buildup, damage/air leak, failure of the runner flap, and a slightly disconnected hose. the easiest thing to do is check the hose that connects to the front side of the intake manifold, i have mine secured with a zip tie as we speak.


the best thing you could do is get it scanned by a VAGCOM - there might be soft codes that can show you more than what youre seeing.
 

GIACUser

Master Wallet Mechanic
How long since you changed plugs. I would pull the plugs and have a look. You should see light brown/grey and of course check gap. If plug is worn and gap too big it you won't get a strong enough spark when you put your foot down. Only takes a few minutes and you can at least eliminate this as a cause.
 

Ash17

Passed Driver's Ed
How long since you changed plugs. I would pull the plugs and have a look. You should see light brown/grey and of course check gap. If plug is worn and gap too big it you won't get a strong enough spark when you put your foot down. Only takes a few minutes and you can at least eliminate this as a cause.
bad coil would throw a code.

this sounds like the beginning of a P2015 - if you get a code im willing to bet that might be it. could be anything related to the intake manifold, including but not limited to: carbon buildup, damage/air leak, failure of the runner flap, and a slightly disconnected hose. the easiest thing to do is check the hose that connects to the front side of the intake manifold, i have mine secured with a zip tie as we speak.


the best thing you could do is get it scanned by a VAGCOM - there might be soft codes that can show you more than what youre seeing.
have you had a carbon cleaning in the 89k miles?
I was going to tell you to pull codes but you have none. Very odd imo, hope you get it cleared up.

Damn I apologize for neglecting to see these responses for almost 3 months. I appreciate the advice you guy's have offered and I've returned to this thread I made to explain the current situation with the car in hopes to better understand what I'm dealing with.

I would also like to apologize in advance for the lengthy post, but their are plenty of details that I feel shouldn't be left out.

Since this post was made I've put about 2000 miles on the car (sitting a little over 91,000). A few weeks after the original post in April, I had a majority of the AC system replaced due to the system not blowing cold air under any circumstance. This work didn't go without its hiccups though, as I picked the car up after the work was completed by a local shop only to find out that the AC system didn't produce cold air while the car was driving under load, but would blow cold eventually after being parked for a minute or two. I picked the car up on a Saturday but obviously needed to bring it back to have the AC looked at again but couldn't until Monday because they're closed on Sunday's. Less than 24 hours after I picked the car up, about mid day on Sunday, as im driving through an intersection going about 15 mph, the car starts bucking and misfiring and the engine tone was different. This felt like the exact symptoms I explained in the original post only it was even more violent and occurred at a higher speed. There was a strong odor of gas and the check engine light and epc light came on. At this point the car is sputtering and can barley go over 20 mph regardless of how much throttle input I give. Was close to making it into my neighborhood before the car just gave up and shut down all functions (likely a fail safe mode?) and I was able to coast over to the side of the road. Tried turning the car back on but it wouldn't even try to turn over. I also noticed a trail of gas that had poured out of my exhaust pipes on to the road.

I have the car towed to the same shop, but after signing off for the tow, the battery seemed to be completely dead as it needed to be hooked up to the tow truck via jumpers before he left in order for me to roll up the windows.

At this point the AC doesn't function properly when the car is under load, there seems to be some sort issue with the fuel system, as well as something up with the battery/alternator. The following day I get a call from the shop explaining that one of the injectors was stuck open and flooded cylinder 1 and also found fault codes stored in the memory - 01343, P0171, P0301, P0302, P0303, and P0304. Tech also explained that fuel leaked into the oil and suggested an oil change as well as four new injectors (I opted for all four because they already had the manifold off and it felt worth it at 90k if one had already failed). The intake manifold gasket was replaced as well per normal manifold removal procedure. The car wouldn't hold a charge and needed to be jumped everytime the shop would test drive the car with the new injectors in place and after performing serval tests, came to the conclusion that a new battery was also required.

So now there are 4 new injectors, manifold gasket, 5W-40 oil change with filter, and a new battery installed. After the shop test drove the car for a total of 29 miles, the tech calls me and explains that the AC now works while parked as well as under load, and the car operates as it should with no fault codes. I pick the car up and everything seems to working properly....until I drove the car for an additional 20 miles later that evening and heard a chime coming from the dash followed by the message "LOW OIL PRESSURE ENGINE SHUT OFF!". I was in a neighborhood and pulled over immediately.

I had the car towed back to the same shop and heard back from them the following day after they ran oil pressure tests. The tech explained to me that oil pressure is measured at 2000 rpm and an acceptable range is 29-65 psi and my car was reading 32 psi at 2000 rpm. A faulty oil pressure sensor seemed to be the blame and was replaced as well as an oil change with a suggested higher weight 15w40 castrol full synthetic oil to try and raise the oil pressure a bit more because 32 psi is on the lower end of the acceptable range. Higher weight oil was used under my skeptical approval but was willing to try anything at this point. The shop provided me with a print out of the VW approved oils for a 2010 GTI to show that the weight of oil they were using was "acceptable" in the eyes of Volkswagen. I will include a picture of that list of approved oils, and the 2 separate invoices with the notes made by the technician the two times I had it towed to them. After the tech went on 4 different test drives totaling 78 miles (under my approval), the AC system still functions properly, and no CEL or oil pressure message popped up. I pick my car up and leave hoping to never have to return lol.

I have the car for a few days before I replace the PCV and both vent hoses with the most up to date OEM part numbers in hopes of trying to alleviate the amount of oil leaking from the upper and lower timing covers as well as from the cam cover until I can replace the gaskets and reseal them. These were pre existing leaks and I already had these parts before any of the initial work explained above was done but I never installed it due not having the car for quite some time until I got it back from the shop.

Few days later and the joy of just simply having my car back began to fade and I started to pay more attention to how the car is driving. No lights on the dash or anything like that but the car just seems noticeably sluggish or slower than before any of this work was done. I'm now starting to become suspicious of the choice of oil weight that was used in the recent oil pressure sensor remedy. After all, doesn't all of this sound a bit too coincidental ? Oil pressure light popping up immediately after an oil change ? Having an injector and battery fail at the same time and nothing additional being done to remedy the AC not being cold under load accept for a new battery possibly being the culprit ? Was the first batch of oil contaminated with fuel even replaced with the proper spec 5w-40 oil and was the correct amount used?
Let me note that I hadn't experienced the low speed jerking misfire and weird engine noise since I received the car for the final time but I was still not satisfied with how the car was performing. I decided to drain the "15w-40" oil and measure how much came out and replace it with full synthetic 10w-40 Castrol edge high mileage thinking that the higher weight oil and possible over fill might be causing the sluggish feeling I was experiencing. Having already done 3 oil changes on the car myself and I knew that the correct amount was 4.9 quarts. So, I drain the oil the shop put in and it measures a bit over 5.5 quarts... How can I trust anything this shop has explained to me about the repairs they've made to my car, IF THEY CANT EVEN PERFORM A PROPER OIL CHANGE?!? I put 4.9 quarts of the 10w40 in, hope for the best, and drive about 300 miles over the next two days without issue on a little 4th of July weekend trip.

Fast forward 3 weeks to present day and for the most part I've been kind of babying the car because i dont really trust it anymore. Have been since I picked the car up for the last time from the shop. A few days ago I decided to finally open it up and drive a bit more spirited. That was a mistake because I started to experience the original jerking and sputtering feeling again directly after that little spirited drive when I was pulling into my driveway. It feels just like before at low speed. Happens when I'm cruising at about 5 mph through a parking lot looking for a spot, or pulling into the garage. And that's where I'm at right now. No CEL or any other light on the dash. I've always thought that it was engine related like a vacuum leak or a sensor, maybe fuel system related, but could it be the DSG ? The NGK plugs and red top coils only have about 8k on them since I put them in. Could one of the plugs fouled when the cylinder flooded with fuel ? Maybe something funky happened when they had the manifold off and wasn't put back properly. Assuming the shops numbers are correct, is it normal for a 2010 GTI with 90k to have that low of oil pressure ? Should I go back to the Liqui Molly 5w40 oil? I only chose the 10w40 because I feel a bit paranoid about what the tech said about the oil pressure and how they recommended the higher weight oil for any future oil change, but is the weight of oil to blame ? Maybe it's the timing cover leaks. One of you mentioned it seemed like possible signs of a failing manifold? Obviously I never plan on doing business with that shop again and I feel like I'm just waiting for something to fully fail so that I can take it to an independent German shop and have them give it a go.

Not too sure what my next move is and if you made it this far I congratulate you. Any advice is very much appreciated.
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AM407

Autocross Champion
So they removed the intake manifold but didn’t even do a carbon cleaning? What did they say about carbon buildup? I can’t imagine it being clean at 90,000 miles.

And there’s an updated intake manifold out now too. It’s cheap, so seems silly to put that old one back on. It’s only a matter of time before it breaks (if it’s not broken / carboned up already.)
 

Ash17

Passed Driver's Ed
So they removed the intake manifold but didn’t even do a carbon cleaning? What did they say about carbon buildup? I can’t imagine it being clean at 90,000 miles.

And there’s an updated intake manifold out now too. It’s cheap, so seems silly to put that old one back on. It’s only a matter of time before it breaks (if it’s not broken / carboned up already.)

I asked about checking for carbon on the valves and they implied that the amount of build up was negligible. Not that I trust their word though, probably just their way of getting out of doing something they dont know how to do. Plus they mentioned they've never performed a carbon cleaning before so that's a red flag right there, I didnt want to be their first Guinea pig. Carbon build has been on my mind since I got the car and first started diving into fourms reading about GTI's with similar mileage but its something I haven't tackled yet. All of the reputable shops around me either dont offer the service or seem a bit overpriced ~$800 range 😬. So if it does happen, I'll likely end up doing it myself.
Also wouldn't I have a CEL with a code if the manifold was failing ? The only code that seemed like could be linked to the intake was the P0171
 
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alpha3

Go Kart Champion
Holy moly, good grief, and good gawd. Talk about going in the wrong direction and just throwing parts and procedures at something without a good diagnosis. Not necessarily blaming you, but I sure wouldn't have kept going back to those fools at that shop you went to. :oops:

If I were to guess I would do so on carbon buildup first; then add a failing intake manifold as well. Failing, not done yet because it hasn't thrown the P2015 code (has it??) There's more stuff that could still be contributing, but you need a good shop to do a proper in-depth diagnosis. You said above at one point the car was sort of behaving but didn't ''seem right'' and sluggish. That's exactly how mine felt before my manifold went bad. No codes, but it felt weird and sluggish. Also - you don't say anything about your timing chain but if you're at 90k in a 2010 you'd better have someone look at that tensioner as well, and soon. If that goes, you can kiss the motor adios.
 

Ash17

Passed Driver's Ed
Holy moly, good grief, and good gawd. Talk about going in the wrong direction and just throwing parts and procedures at something without a good diagnosis. Not necessarily blaming you, but I sure wouldn't have kept going back to those fools at that shop you went to. :oops:

If I were to guess I would do so on carbon buildup first; then add a failing intake manifold as well. Failing, not done yet because it hasn't thrown the P2015 code (has it??) There's more stuff that could still be contributing, but you need a good shop to do a proper in-depth diagnosis. You said above at one point the car was sort of behaving but didn't ''seem right'' and sluggish. That's exactly how mine felt before my manifold went bad. No codes, but it felt weird and sluggish. Also - you don't say anything about your timing chain but if you're at 90k in a 2010 you'd better have someone look at that tensioner as well, and soon. If that goes, you can kiss the motor adios.

Thankfully a majority of the cost was covered under the aftermarket warranty on the car, and the returning to the same shop felt justified at first, thinking that if they're the ones that have already been paid to fix a problem then they should finish what they started. The labor was free under the shops warranty when I returned to have them fix what they already said was "fixed", but I learned that "free" labor equates to more expensive and qualified labor to get the job done right later down the road. In hindsight I should've taken the car to a dedicated VAG shop and paid more in labor to have the work done right the first time but hey, this entire journey has been a giant learning experience since I first drove off the used car lot. Thanks for the advice on the carbon cleaning and manifold swap. Have you had the valves cleaned on your car and if so did you go the DIY route or have a shop do it ?
 

Ash17

Passed Driver's Ed
Also - you don't say anything about your timing chain but if you're at 90k in a 2010 you'd better have someone look at that tensioner as well, and soon. If that goes, you can kiss the motor adios.

And yes, from what I've read having the older style tensioner is driving on borrowed time and should be swapped out ASAP. I learned this shortly after getting the car but still haven't popped the inspection plug to see if it's the old style. I even have a new plug incase I distort the one that's in the cover already 🤦‍♂️ maybe I should get on that
 

alpha3

Go Kart Champion
...........but still haven't popped the inspection plug to see if it's the old style.
If your car is a 2010 it's the old style. Get on it! :eek:

Have you had the valves cleaned on your car and if so did you go the DIY route or have a shop do it ?
I had an indy shop do it at around 100k. They needed it, too.
 

alpha3

Go Kart Champion
How much did you pay ? And is that also when you swapped manifolds ?
Yes, they did the manifold then too; I don't remember precisely how much; mani isn't expensive but the labor is.
 
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