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Old 04-20-2011, 11:07 AM   #1
bubuski
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Adjusting Mk6 negative camber in rear

I will be attempting this tomorrow after work. Does anyone have additional information/hints to add?
My allignment is booked for monday and I want to make sure that I get to the shop without ruining my rear fenders.

Will it be easier with the wheels removed?

I searched golfmkv and got the information below.

tomshouse516:
upper camber arm has an eccentric washer on the frame side mount. you loosen the nut and spin the bolt/washer so that the thin side of the washer faces directly in towards the center of the car. that is max rear camber.

RSMark5:
The shim, you want the narrowest part to face each other. That will give you all the way in. If you don't want as extreme negative camber adjust it. That shim seems to make it bottom the adjustment out sooner. So think of that shim as giving you like 3 positions. The narrow part facing each other is all the way in. the fat part facing in is probably around -3*. You still push the adjustment arm all the way in so you know its even, but it does allow for probably around -1* of play.

CW.GTI :
The shim and bolt have a tendancy to shift when your loosening and pushing the arm in. You do have to make sure they are facing each other in the same pattern, not opposite. Otherwise the camber won't be exactly even.

RSMark5:
The shim and bolt have a tendancy to shift when your loosening and pushing the arm in. You do have to make sure they are facing each other in the same pattern, not opposite. Otherwise the camber won't be exactly

Basically In the highlighted area, loosen #12 then adjust by using #10
What about the #9 asymmetric washer?



ps. I have two jack stands and a floor jack that I will be using.

edit: I'll be doing this with a buddy who just PM'd me.

Last edited by bubuski; 04-20-2011 at 11:19 AM. Reason: ~
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Old 04-20-2011, 11:14 AM   #2
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The angle. I already did the front camber to max.


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Old 04-20-2011, 12:06 PM   #3
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camber is purely for aggressive offset right?
im getting nitto neogen tires which are supposedly more camber friendly... so im considering doing it
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Old 04-20-2011, 01:10 PM   #4
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I'm sure Bubuski is performing an experiment on how fast he can wear out the tread on his tires.
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Old 04-20-2011, 01:18 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by mylesw42 View Post
I'm sure Bubuski is performing an experiment on how fast he can wear out the tread on his tires.
Haha!
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Old 04-20-2011, 01:28 PM   #6
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haahh i wanna say 5k on those tires :P
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Old 04-20-2011, 02:23 PM   #7
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You can probably do about -2 camber all around with maybe a 15% ish loss in tread due to the camber. If you have directional tires, you just swap your left side tires to your right side so you get as even as wear as possible.

Camber helps during track for extra grip but lowers braking slightly due to less tire contact patch on the pavement.

I think -2* is max tolerable for daily driving.
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Old 04-20-2011, 03:04 PM   #8
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Camber does not wear tire faster, toe does. Camber only changes the contact patch of the tires. IE, if a tire takes 20k to wear, only the road contact portion of the tire will be fully worn after 20K.

Changing camber affects toe, so as long as an allignment is done afterwards, you'll be fine.
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Old 04-20-2011, 03:19 PM   #9
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i stand corrected haha. Now that I think about it, you're absolutely right. Sorry for the ill advised post. But yea good alignment solves almost everything.
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Old 04-20-2011, 03:45 PM   #10
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^^^My response was for the posts above yours. You are right to a point if it is a track related senario. The cambered tires will be working harder for extra grip achieved in the corners and will probably wear slightly faster, but for my low and slow street situation, it won't. I'm still on stock tune after almost 18month so I wont be using the tires any harder.
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Old 04-20-2011, 03:48 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by sukanas View Post
camber is purely for aggressive offset right?
im getting nitto neogen tires which are supposedly more camber friendly... so im considering doing it
Aggressive offset and wheel diameter, but can be setup for certain track situation too. For me, I'm trying to tuck a 9.5" wheel.
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Old 04-20-2011, 08:55 PM   #12
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I found a picture of what to look for. Should be fun.
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Old 04-21-2011, 11:43 AM   #13
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Aggressive chamber actually does accelerate tire wear even in normal everyday driving. In the case of negative chamber, the inside of the tire takes on a higher load in straight line driving and will wear faster than the outside. Your 20K tires will not last 20K. If the tires are not directional, you can un/remount them inside-out to extend their lives. If they are directional, then once the inside is worn they are done.

Another way to get even tire wear with aggressive negative chamber is go to auto-x regularly and drive the crap out of the outside of the tires in the turns.

Setting the correct alignment is a precision of part art, part science, and part sorcery, with camber, toe, and caster all interrelated. I really don't recommend messing with it blindly to fit some 9.5" wheels.
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Old 04-21-2011, 12:43 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Ben_GTI View Post
Aggressive chamber actually does accelerate tire wear even in normal everyday driving. In the case of negative chamber, the inside of the tire takes on a higher load in straight line driving and will wear faster than the outside. Your 20K tires will not last 20K. If the tires are not directional, you can un/remount them inside-out to extend their lives. If they are directional, then once the inside is worn they are done.
...and what is considered aggressive camber? Our cars cannot run too aggressive without extra camber plates in the back.
Our camber wear is wearing at an angle not wearing faster.

The weight is re-distributed on the tire so the part that contacts the road will not wear faster as long as the toe and caster are still in check. It will wear at thesame rate based on the individual's driving just like MPG when relating to Stg1 tune.

Get a Stg I, Be heavy on the pedal and you'll burn more gas while going faster.
get more neg camber and take corners and exists quicker and you'll burn more rubber while being faster.

Drive slow and relaxed on the street and either one would last just as long.

With caster and toe set to spec and negative camber, people look at the tire and see it wear at an angle and assume that the tire wears faster. It does not on the streets. It does when the car is pushed beyond it's normal cruising pace in high spritied driving.

A 205 tire takes higher load and has less contact than a 225, but it does not wear any faster in a worry some way on the MK6 Golf or GTI. If the toe is off then either tire will wear considerably faster.
On a track, negative camber increases grip in hard cornering where the car would otherwise start oversteering/understeering. Adjusting the camber to increase corner grip will use the tire's rubber to improve lap times.

Same tire rotation rule applies whether it is cambered or not to enhance rubber life. Both would wear disappointingly if not rotated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben_GTI View Post
Another way to get even tire wear with aggressive negative chamber is go to auto-x regularly and drive the crap out of the outside of the tires in the turns.
Setting the correct alignment is a precision of part art, part science, and part sorcery, with camber, toe, and caster all interrelated. I really don't recommend messing with it blindly to fit some 9.5" wheels.
As I mentioned above, I do not auto-x, track...and the full allignment is booked for monday. Adjusting the camber so I can drive to the shop without ruining my fenders is not the end of the world. they will reset the caster and toe that I altered to OEMspec and balance the camber between the wheels while I still tuck the 9.5.
I am mechanically inclined and have installed enough suspensions. Installing and alligning is not hard...as long as you have the right tools. Adjusting the toe is simply the other bolt in the picture that I posted.

Last edited by bubuski; 04-21-2011 at 12:58 PM. Reason: ~
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Old 04-21-2011, 02:14 PM   #15
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Camber WILL wear a tire faster, I don't care how many suspensions you have DIY'd.

If we establish your normal contact patch at 0 camber, and relate this to the width of the tire, changing the camber will directly affect how that contact patch touches the road, decreasing its size in relation to tire width. If the outside of the tire now has less weight on it, then we know that the inside of the tire must have MORE weight on it. Simple laws of physics here. Given that you are now applying more weight to the inside of the tire, that section WILL wear faster, regardless of your toe and caster settings.

The same weight on a smaller contact patch means a higher weight per square inch, which will cause the tire to wear faster in those areas of higher weight concentration.

Just thought I would set this straight.
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Old 04-21-2011, 03:56 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeauG View Post
Camber WILL wear a tire faster, I don't care how many suspensions you have DIY'd.

If we establish your normal contact patch at 0 camber, and relate this to the width of the tire, changing the camber will directly affect how that contact patch touches the road, decreasing its size in relation to tire width. If the outside of the tire now has less weight on it, then we know that the inside of the tire must have MORE weight on it. Simple laws of physics here. Given that you are now applying more weight to the inside of the tire, that section WILL wear faster, regardless of your toe and caster settings.

The same weight on a smaller contact patch means a higher weight per square inch, which will cause the tire to wear faster in those areas of higher weight concentration.

Just thought I would set this straight.
While negative camber will indeed affect a tire's wear, I do think people often confuse camber and toe wear with just camber wear. If you have toe that is within spec and you rotate your tires or flip them, you could still get decent mileage out of your tires. What totally kills tires quickly is the combination of toe with camber, which is why its important to get an alignment.
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Old 04-22-2011, 12:42 AM   #17
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While negative camber will indeed affect a tire's wear, I do think people often confuse camber and toe wear with just camber wear. If you have toe that is within spec and you rotate your tires or flip them, you could still get decent mileage out of your tires. What totally kills tires quickly is the combination of toe with camber, which is why its important to get an alignment.


Cambered tires just like stock detroits on full OEM alignment spec, if not rotated or swapped regularly would not get full use and thread life out of the tires. This should be done every 10K as recommended by VW which is mostly neglected on cambered tires.
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Old 04-22-2011, 08:00 AM   #18
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Your missing the point. I'm not saying cambered tires are going to wear in 2 months. I'm just correcting the fact that you guys have said it provides NO additional wear, which is false.
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Old 04-22-2011, 08:46 AM   #19
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...and you have not indicated how much additional positive/negative camber will cause a GTI to wear faster especially without extra camber plates on street cruising use. In my situation as I have outlined a few times in this thread, driving like grandpa wont eat my tires faster...especially if I keep swapping and rotating according to VW's recommended intervals.

Track/high spirited use is different as it uses more rubber in the tire to push more G-forces in turns when approaching the suspension limit.
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Old 04-22-2011, 11:00 AM   #20
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thread jack time:

there is a reason why tires on corollas/ camrys/ Sonatas etc last so long. Cos they do not run aggressive toe/ camber specs.

The reason why early 350Z tires were wearing out by 8k was becuase of their "ultra" aggressive camber/ toe specs.

I thought extra negative camber in the rear will cause a bit more understeer. You're getting the rear to "stick" more in the back.... Isn't this jacking with our car's solid balance?

I know the extra wear on the inner sides of the rears will also cause some rumbling tire noise pretty quickly....

but hey, if you can live with it.... do it!
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