APR vs COBB

[MrFancypants]

When I got my GTI I was coming from Subarus and I thought it was odd that a platform as established as the GTI didn't have tuning options like the Accessport available to it. When I asked local VW enthusiasts about handheld flashing tools right after I bought my car it was like I was speaking a different language.

I know that APR offers super high quality items, and I intend to purchase a few of them. But I couldn't get over things like fees to transfer the license to a new owner, or the difficulty in acquiring a tune tailored to my specific set of parts.

In general I prefer that vendors treat my transactions with them as a transfer of ownership, as opposed to licensing agreements. APR offers a licensing agreement, while Cobb sells a thing that I can own and sell to another person. So I'll be purchasing an Accessport at some point in the future.

 

[Mattskiis]

Im sure your pro-tuner can limit boost/torque to your needs... or are you not familiar with how tuning works?

Actually I don't. No need to be boorish and uncouth. I'm sure you can be authority without being a snob.

 

[lilonespaz]

Actually I don't. No need to be boorish and uncouth. I'm sure you can be authority without being a snob.

Well when you spread misinformation because you are uninformed you are the problem. If you dont know ask.

 

[jettaglx91]

Im sure your pro-tuner can limit boost/torque to your needs... or are you not familiar with how tuning works?

This. They can absolutely do that. More so than APR can since APR has no idea what your specific mods are.

Yes a pro tune can simply limit boost, but does it give the ability to offer boost/torque by gear? Not being sarcastic, Im seriously curious as I find that hard to believe as it would require changes at the root level and assume the access tuner does not offer that? I very well may be wrong, however you guys are awfully certain yet I have never seen a mention of it?

 

[artur1292]

And this is exactly why we purchased the development car, are posting results on the findings, and offer a pro-tune for only $50 on top of the cost of the AP. With a lot of the other tunes that are done at a dealer you don't get to see how the car is running. The ignition corrections happen there with other tunes targeting the same power levels and running on the same fuel - you just don't see them. So already you are more aware with the handheld and can seek out to improve the tune for your specific car.

The OTS maps for the other platforms are not what people write home about with COBB either.. What they write home about are the ease of use, datalogging, and customised tunes from tuners that do have lots of years of experience and get to see data from lots of cars all over the world.

The AP hardware, logging, and tuning interface gives me the tools to perfect the tune, remotely and through iterations for the exact data coming from the customer's car whether the car is bone stock, big turbo, regardless of what brand parts it has.

Also keep in mind that not all fuel quality is the same. 93 octane in Texas knocks more than 91 octane in Colorado.

These are the nuances that custom/pro tuning addresses and this can be done via the COBB AP. This can also be done completely remotely without having to strap your car to a dyno especially at bolt on power levels.

I have actually been keeping an eye on your guys' thread. You have been making some great findings. Thanks for being so devoted to this platform.

While I 100% understand the advantage to protuning, my understand has been that you pay for the AP and then most tuners price is about 350-450 on top for a protune. I completely understand obviously why it is so expensive but if you aren't chasing a special goal for power/tuning, the generic tunes from apr, revo, giac and uni have been developed and perfected through the years to make more power while still being reliable over the off the shelf stuff offered by COBB as of now.

I may also be assuming things so I always make sure to emphasize the fact that it only seems this way to me but, when I reached out to COBB to see if I can possibly protune my 2010 a3, which has the same gen tsi motor as the gti, their reply sounded to me like they were saying it can't be done right now and to not expect anything for a really long time because right now the vw/audi platforms are not very high on their priority list. This is understandable but, if you are getting an AP with the hopes that their ots stuff will be just as good if not better than whats already out there then your not going to have a very good time.

 

[havocsrt]

I have actually been keeping an eye on your guys' thread. You have been making some great findings. Thanks for being so devoted to this platform.

While I 100% understand the advantage to protuning, my understand has been that you pay for the AP and then most tuners price is about 350-450 on top for a protune. I completely understand obviously why it is so expensive but if you aren't chasing a special goal for power/tuning, the generic tunes from apr, revo, giac and uni have been developed and perfected through the years to make more power while still being reliable over the off the shelf stuff offered by COBB as of now.

I may also be assuming things so I always make sure to emphasize the fact that it only seems this way to me but, when I reached out to COBB to see if I can possibly protune my 2010 a3, which has the same gen tsi motor as the gti, their reply sounded to me like they were saying it can't be done right now and to not expect anything for a really long time because right now the vw/audi platforms are not very high on their priority list. This is understandable but, if you are getting an AP with the hopes that their ots stuff will be just as good if not better than whats already out there then your not going to have a very good time.

Most of us who have and/or will purchase the AP have larger goals then just running COBB OTS maps. The point of the AP is to etune or protune. I'm speaking for myself and probably most of the other COBB customers.

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[artur1292]

Most of us who have and/or will purchase the AP have larger goals then just running COBB OTS maps. The point of the AP is to etune or protune. I'm speaking for myself and probably most of the other COBB customers.

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Like I said, I understand that most people buying an access port are more interested in doing bigger things than running ots maps. It seems to me like OP is just interested in running ots maps and has no interest in paying extra for protuning or etuning. Based on that fact I gave him my opinion. If you aren't interested in using the AP for protuning then, right now there really is no point in getting one over going with apr or uni or anyone else because as of now you will be making more power with the peace of mind that this tune has been tried and true for the time being and probably for a long time to come.

 

[havocsrt]

Like I said, I understand that most people buying an access port are more interested in doing bigger things than running ots maps. It seems to me like OP is just interested in running ots maps and has no interest in paying extra for protuning or etuning. Based on that fact I gave him my opinion. If you aren't interested in using the AP for protuning then, right now there really is no point in getting one over going with apr or uni or anyone else because as of now you will be making more power with the peace of mind that this tune has been tried and true for the time being and probably for a long time to come.

[emoji106]

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[theclutch]

And this is exactly why we purchased the development car, are posting results on the findings, and offer a pro-tune for only $50 on top of the cost of the AP. ...

Thanks Alex, just checking my understanding if I bought my COBB AP from you for $700 US, you would "pro tune" my car after I drive around for a while to collect data for the AP? Since I'm in New England, would I have to get a different tune for summer vs winter?

Also, what off the self tunes does the COBB come with? And how many tunes can I store into the AP? The APR is limited to 4.

APR has a "low torque" tune vs. their regular tune. From APR's dyno charts, it appears that the regular tune is "torque peaky" and this would alter the car's driving characteristics accordingly. Some people like this, some don't. I assume this is why APR has the low torque version which actually provides a flatter torque curve which is appealing to me. It seems like COBB's OTS tunes are flat torque curves. I'd like to have both high and low torque tunes to be able to play around!

 

[theclutch]

Like I said, I understand that most people buying an access port are more interested in doing bigger things than running ots maps. It seems to me like OP is just interested in running ots maps and has no interest in paying extra for protuning or etuning. Based on that fact I gave him my opinion. If you aren't interested in using the AP for protuning then, right now there really is no point in getting one over going with apr or uni or anyone else because as of now you will be making more power with the peace of mind that this tune has been tried and true for the time being and probably for a long time to come.

I'm leaning more towards COBB at this point. Although I'm not looking to get past Stage 2. It's a brainless decision to go with COBB from Stratified if their pro tune is effectively only $50 more! And as what Stratified said, it seems COBB customers like the "gadget" aspect of the AP. Add to that that I can recover $500 or so when I sell the car truly makes this pretty much brainless for my use regardless of how much more power APR/others makes.

...
The OTS maps for the other platforms are not what people write home about with COBB either.. What they write home about are the ease of use, datalogging, and customised tunes from tuners that do have lots of years of experience and get to see data from lots of cars all over the world....

 

[lilonespaz]

Yes a pro tune can simply limit boost, but does it give the ability to offer boost/torque by gear? Not being sarcastic, Im seriously curious as I find that hard to believe as it would require changes at the root level and assume the access tuner does not offer that? I very well may be wrong, however you guys are awfully certain yet I have never seen a mention of it?

Hmm maybe Alex from Stratified can chime in with a real answer from a Cobb tuner.

 

[BigCanoe]

Ya, even if you dont go more than OTS tune, it seems the COBB is the better value because it still has value if you want to sell the car or remove the tune. I guess you have to find a buyer for the AP, but still.

 

[havocsrt]

If anyone wants to go COBB stage 2, ECS has SPM downpipes really cheap right now.

https://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_VI--2.0T/Exhaust/Steve_Petty_Motorsports/ES2855996/

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[Alex@Stratified]

Thanks Alex, just checking my understanding if I bought my COBB AP from you for $700 US, you would "pro tune" my car after I drive around for a while to collect data for the AP? Since I'm in New England, would I have to get a different tune for summer vs winter?

Also, what off the self tunes does the COBB come with? And how many tunes can I store into the AP? The APR is limited to 4.

APR has a "low torque" tune vs. their regular tune. From APR's dyno charts, it appears that the regular tune is "torque peaky" and this would alter the car's driving characteristics accordingly. Some people like this, some don't. I assume this is why APR has the low torque version which actually provides a flatter torque curve which is appealing to me. It seems like COBB's OTS tunes are flat torque curves. I'd like to have both high and low torque tunes to be able to play around!

Yes, for $700 a single map pro-tune is included. That means that we start with a Stratified tune that we have developed on our own GTI through hours of testing and thousands of miles of refinement. From there we use specific data from your car. I send you a tuning form where you fill out your modifications, fuel, and what you want out of the tune. If you want something with a very flat torque curve we can do this. If you want something punchy we can do this too.

After this you load the Stratified tune on your car and grab datalogs based on our instructions. I analyse the data and refine the tune based on your driveability feedback as well as exact data coming from your car with your fuel and your modifications. We then go through a refining process of several back and forth logs and map updates until the tune is complete.

I am not a believer of winter and summer tunes. A car should work well year-round so the goal is to have a tune that performs well in all conditions. If you use different fuel types (91 and 93, or E85) that will require a second map.

You can store an "unlimited" number of tunes on the AP and unlimited number of logs. Of course there is a limit but I haven't heard of anyone reaching it and that is with logging multiple full track sessions and holding 30-40 maps at a time.

Finally you always have access to the OTS tunes. As well as the OEM tune. I like to think that you will enjoy the Stratified tune the most but you always have access to those as well.

 

[havocsrt]

Alex,
Do you guys have any tunes for the F23t yet? Im thinking about moving in that direction.

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